Jesus Came in Weakness

Have you ever noticed that God often values different things than we do? As humans we tend to value strength, but so often God chooses weakness.

In the Old Testament, God chose weakness when he asked Gideon to send most of his troops home and fight with only a tiny minority of his army.

He chose weakness when He sent Elijah to ask for food from a poor widow (she only had enough food for one last meal) rather than to a wealthier individual.

In the New Testament, God chose weakness when He called fishermen and tax-collectors – the lowest of the low in society – to follow Him instead of calling the best and the brightest.

But more astounding than all of these stories, God chose weakness when He sent Jesus into the world. Jesus came into the world, not as an independent adult, not as a child, and not even as a baby. Jesus came into the world as an embryo. An embryo is weak. He is dependent. The God who created the universe and holds it together chose to enter His creation in the weakest and most dependent state possible.

That encourages me.

Our God is not looking for the best and the brightest. He is not seeking credentials. He chooses weakness. He chooses us.

Many of us feel like we can’t really be used by God. We are not talented or powerful enough. We don’t have a big audience or a lot of money. We look around and see other people whom we think God could really use – people with power, influence, talent, etc.

When we think this way, we are missing the point. God is not looking for talented, powerful people. He is looking for people who will trust Him to use them in their weaknesses and their inadequacies. God chooses weakness because in weakness, His strength is most clearly seen.

That is what Christmas is all about.

God came to earth in weakness in order to rescue those who are weak, you and me.

This year, as you celebrate Christmas, take time to be amazed afresh at the incredible reality that God came into the world in weakness to rescue us.

Changing Hearts Is Still Job One

As I write this, the Supreme Court is expected to issue an emergency ruling soon on the Texas law (SB8) that has successfully curtailed many abortions in the state. It will also hear oral arguments on December 1 on the Mississippi law banning abortion after 15 weeks (Dobbs). There is some reason for optimism, especially on Dobbs, but the view we’ve gotten from the field is that our most important challenge remains a constant: many people, inside communities of Christians and outside, simply don’t have a strong love for unborn children and their mothers. It’s that love that drives the JFA team to work to protect both from abortion.

So changing hearts remains Job One. In this Impact Report, we share reflections from participants who found that love and the tools to express it through our training program. We also share pictures of conversations created at recent outreach events. To read some of the amazing stories of changed hearts from the past few months, click the links towards the end of this post.

I am coming to realize just how important it is to reach out to people who are thinking of having an abortion. I used to think that I could not make much of a difference, so why even try? But I have come to realize that saving even one life is worth going out and talking to these women, even though it is outside of my comfort zone. – Abby

God’s really been teaching me how to love correctly lately. I get very passionate about abortion, so something God’s been teaching me today is how to take that passion he’s given me and give it back to him so he can use it through me. I’ve been doing it without a lot of love and I’ve felt convicted of that. – Lydia

You have met a concern I didn’t know how to express: it bothered me when Christians just made intellectual arguments and neglected the life of the mother and all the other difficult aspects of this situation. I have never had a framework or seen an example of this being done in love before. I feel like I have the resources now to take a stand against something that is wrong while demonstrating love and showing care. I LOVE the scripts and additional resources. You made this hands on and practical/tangible. I was so thankful for this training! I feel equipped and encouraged and even excited! – Allison

Thank you for making my voice usable. – Rachel

This opened my eyes to the abortion dialogue. It was always a topic of conversation [to which] I would just say “Amen, that’s wrong.” Now I have the tools to actually do something. Your emphasis [on] the “relational” helps me shift this from a debate to an opportunity to love and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. – Eli

Very well articulated. I have been through [similar] seminars, and this did a great job at solidifying this topic into my brain and rekindling the fire in my heart towards this subject. – Garrett

This was super helpful, and not just philosophically, but ... practically. This has been such a great reminder that it’s not only about the unborn, but also about the person standing in front of us, and that we’re called as Christians to love both. – Annie

I used to look at the topic of abortion as a big rock that I could not move. Now I learned that I can now slowly chip away at it. – Mariah

A Big Change for Chase

Tammy (left) and Rose (in red) talk with Chase at WSU in September 2021.

What a wonderful fall semester! It has been such a joy to be back on campus and having in-person conversations with students. I participated in JFA events in Kansas, Colorado, and Oklahoma. At a small campus outreach event at Wichita State University (WSU) in September, I had a memorable conversation with a student that lasted nearly an hour. I think you’ll be delighted at the outcome.

I was standing with Rose, JFA intern, in front of our Should Abortion Remain Legal poll sign. We met a student named Chase. He didn’t sign our poll, but instead asked our opinion. So I briefly explained our pro-life view. He said that he would vote yes because people are going to do it anyway and we should keep it safe. I asked if he was pro-choice, and he said yes.

Seeking to find common ground I asked, “Should it be legal when done for sex selection? As a form of birth control? During the late term?” He didn’t think it should be legal for any of those reasons. I remarked that there’s a lot on which we agree. He smiled and shook his head affirmatively.

“Invitation to Dialogue” Brochure, pp. 4-5 (Get your own copy here.)

I began explaining the JFA “Invitation to Dialogue” Brochure. I gave a summary of basic human reproduction and biology on the pages depicting stages of human life, before and after birth. He agreed that the unborn is a developing human at fertilization, but it needs a heartbeat to be a human being.

I agreed there is no heartbeat during the first three weeks. I explained that the unborn is a developing human organism, and there’s no injection of essential genetic material after fertilization. The unborn only needs one thing to continue its development—nutrition. And that’s all that we need to move through the stages of human life, from birth to toddler, to teenager, to young adult, etc. We are the same whole human organism at fertilization as we are right now. He agreed that that made sense.

After a short pause, he said, “If that’s all true, then abortion might be wrong depending on the circumstance.” Wow, progress!

I was enjoying this conversation with Chase, not because he was agreeing with everything that I was asking or saying (he wasn’t), but because we built a rapport rather quickly. He pushed back often, which I fully expected from someone that says he is pro-choice. It was exciting to be on a journey engaging with someone who is open-minded and using critical thinking skills. Chase found it surprising, for example, when I noted that about 95% of abortions are for reasons other than rape, life of the mother, and incest.

My next step was using the Equal Rights Argument. I asked what is the same about us—what gives us our equality? He said that the ability to think is what gives us our equality. I asked him to consider a scenario. If the three of us took the same physics test, how would each of us do? I said that I probably wouldn’t do very well. Rose said she wouldn’t do well either, but Chase said that he would do well. I responded, “Since it’s obvious that we have different levels of the ability to think, then our ability to think can’t be the ‘thing’ that gives us our equality because we don’t all think equally, right? Doesn’t our equality have to be based on something that we all have equally?” He shook his head yes and I sensed this was a lightbulb moment. I continued, “I believe that our humanness is what’s the same about all of us—that’s what gives us our equality. And since the unborn are human like us, don’t they deserve to be treated equally to us?” He nodded in agreement. More progress.

Since Chase had referenced personal freedoms several times, I knew that was an important topic to him. So I shared my Two Buckets analogy. At the end of my story, I asked, “In which bucket does abortion belong? Does it belong in the one with personal preferences or the one with things like murder and stealing?” He thought for a minute and said, “I’m against 95% of abortions. That 95% belongs in the bucket with murder. I can now see that abortion is wrong. But abortion needs to be legal for the other 5%.” Praise God! Now I’m going after that remaining 5%!

I agreed that rape, incest, and life of the mother are very tough situations. I addressed each circumstance and expressed concern for those women. I commended Chase for his compassion. After I felt that I had adequately communicated my compassion, I attempted to bring the conversation back to the point of agreement that the unborn is human. I “trotted out a toddler.” I said, “Imagine a woman with a two-year-old who was conceived in rape. Would you agree that she can’t kill her child even though she can’t deal with the deep emotional pain she feels every time she looks at her child?” He agreed. We discussed it further and agreed that even though the topic of rape is very difficult, that since the unborn is human like the two-year-old, then we can’t kill the unborn in the same way that we can’t kill the two-year-old. They are both valuable human beings.

I added a few more facts. I told him that many people don’t know there are a lot of resources available at thousands of Pregnancy Resource Centers. I said there are about 2,500 abortions every day and I believe there are plenty of resources to help every one of those women.

He said, “Okay, you convinced me! I’m against abortion 100%!” We looked at each other with big smiles and high-fived! Then he signed “No” on our Should Abortion Remain Legal poll. Praise God!

For help learning and using the tools that I employed in my conversation with Chase, here’s a special list of links just for you:

Thank you for your prayers and for your continued support. I’m experiencing a shortfall in my support right now. Would you consider giving a special year-end gift to help? Thank you! May God bless you.

In Christ,

Tammy Cook

Second Thoughts

You know when you have a thought that enters your mind immediately upon hearing something or seeing someone, and you think, “Wow, I’m not sure why I thought that. That was a bizarre thought. I don’t appreciate that that came into my mind.” Follow me here. I call this a First Thought.

That internal questioning that says, “Hmm, why did I think that?” is one example of a Second Thought. This is a fundamental aspect of maturing as a person.

We’re all taught things, raised with ideas. Some of those ideas are beautiful and good and shape us to be stronger when challenged. Good ideas like trusting God first and looking before you cross the street can become instinctual First Thoughts if they’re ingrained early enough. Other first thoughts, however, are toxic. An example would be a thought of judging someone’s actions without discernment. Another example would be rude thoughts without consideration. Some forms of racism and sexism come from this First Thought category. Somewhere along the way, we absorb the belief that those clothes are “ugly” or that hairstyle is “awful.” These examples are only the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes these First Thoughts are insidious, causing harm to our psyche or resulting in harm to others when acted on.

When I first began doing pro-life work, I judged women who had abortions as murderers – evil women who wanted to kill children. After speaking to women who had unexpected pregnancies, challenging life circumstances, or who had actually sought out abortions, the Second Thoughts started to emerge. When I judged someone “without thinking,” I addressed that thought: “I don’t want to think things like that automatically. I want to learn more about this person and have compassion.”

Without Second Thoughts, the mind runs about like a child in a grocery store: “Ew, Mom, what’s wrong with her face?” With maturing and conscious effort to address prejudice, the mind stands still and ponders, “I feel concern. Concern for many people: the unborn, the women, this person standing before me. How do I love them all and extend to them the heart of Jesus?”

This transformation of thought takes work. Making Second Thoughts into instinctual habit takes years of re-learning, exposure to uncomfortable ideas, abandoning our pride before the throne of God. I still have so many First Thoughts. As a new mom, some First Thoughts about parenting are rearing their ugly heads, and I need compassion from people around me as I learn to re-train my mind, turning judgment into discernment and care. The good news is that I (and you!) can work on developing the habit of Second Thoughts that counteract these First Thoughts, causing them to recede into the background, and hopefully causing them to pop up less and less as Second Thoughts take their place.

As a pro-life speaker, trainer, and conversationalist, Second Thoughts are my passion. If I want to have a good conversation with someone with whom I may have disagreements, I have to put aside judgmental thoughts first and say to myself, “On second thought, how can I love them first?”

I challenge you to do the same.

Interns in Action (Part 2)

Impact Report, October 2021

At JFA, our internships are an expression of our passion for nurturing young leaders, helping them create conversations that change hearts and minds and helping them learn to train others. In all of these activities, we emphasize dependence on God to bring the results He wishes to bring through our efforts.

In our Impact Report last month, interns Rose and Bella shared stories of conversations they had during August and September outreach events at Wichita State University.

In this Impact Report, interns Andrea and Kristina share a window into how this process of creating conversations has affected them personally, including deepening their trust in God at every moment. As you endeavor to make a difference in the lives of those God puts in your path, I hope these insights from Andrea and Kristina will also encourage you to trust God throughout each interaction.


Some of JFA’s interns come to us with very little conversation experience, just like many of our training participants. Because we place conversations and outreach front and center in the internship, interns quickly identify with our training participants’ normal fears and uncertainties, but our interns also gain insights they can share out of their personal experience with people they will be training. Interns Andrea and Kristina recently shared some of those insights:

Andrea Thenhaus: One of the most valuable skills I have learned is how to listen with an open heart yet also be able to share the truth in a conversation. I have gained a greater understanding of how to meet people in whatever circumstances they may be… I appreciate the mentoring that JFA provides. When out on campus I had a JFA member evaluate each conversation I had, which was especially helpful… I have been stretched in the Lord and grown in boldness. I have learned the importance of relying on the Lord to direct my conversations. Every conversation is an invitation to let the Holy Spirit step in and accomplish His work through me. I am thankful that the Lord is faithful to give me wisdom.

Kristina Massa: The scariest part about abortion dialogue is initiating the first conversation. Even after training and practice with Justice For All, the fears that accompanied asking strangers what they think about abortion continued to billow in my mind: What if they share an argument for which I’m not prepared? What if they yell at me? What if this is an emotional topic for them, and my question stirs up those emotions? The list of fears and lies the devil plants in our minds to prevent us from taking the first step can feel like it goes on forever, but the army of graces that God affords us to overcome those fears puts that list to shame.

With the support of the JFA team, I took a leap of faith in my first conversation at outreach. A young woman approached us to sign our poll which asked, “Should Abortion Remain Legal?” I initiated a conversation by asking her questions about her view. I was nervous, my demeanor was shaky, and I stumbled on my words. Any snarky person could have easily used my weakness to walk on me. To my surprise, the woman (who identified as pro-choice) was extremely gracious, and we found ourselves in a productive dialogue filled with lots of common ground. God used the woman’s temperament to compensate for what I was lacking. We may not have all of the right words or confidence we want in every conversation, but time and time again, God has demonstrated to me that He will provide the safe ground to land on as long as we take our leap of faith.

Two Buckets - Take Two

What a privilege it was to be back on the Wichita State University (WSU) campus on August 30 and 31 with the JFA team! I was excited to once again dialogue with college students face to face after a 17-month wait. I was ready to meet the challenge of helping them think through their views on abortion, and I prayed to see hearts and minds changed.

I introduced my Two Buckets analogy in 2017. It continues to be a very useful approach with pro-choice students that say, “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but I can’t tell others what to do.” I’m thrilled to share the impact that this analogy had on a WSU student named James.

James didn’t identify as pro-life or pro-choice. He said, “I’m in the middle.” I asked several questions to help him think through his views. I discovered that he believed that we become human at fertilization and that the unborn are human like us. He also agreed that the unborn deserved to be treated equally to born people and should be protected.

I then asked, “If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?” He thought long and hard and said, “I can still see both sides of the issue. I believe strongly in freedom of choice. I just don’t think I can take someone else’s rights away.” I shared my Two Buckets story to help him dig deeper into his thinking.

Tammy: Imagine that I have two buckets. The first bucket contains choices like murder, rape, stealing, and molestation. Do you agree that these choices are wrong and should not be legal?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The second bucket contains personal choices—for example, a favorite food like strawberries, choosing to go to college or not, dying your hair blue, etc. Do you agree that everyone should have the freedom to make these personal choices that do not harm others?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The significant difference between each of the two buckets is that one contains choices that harm people and the other bucket contains choices that do not harm people.

James: That makes a lot of sense. Many people think pro-life people want to take rights away, but I can see now that you’re actually wanting to add rights to people— to let them have plenty of rights as long as it doesn’t harm another human being...

I smiled and nodded in agreement.

James: What about rape? That’s a really tough situation.

Tammy: I agree.

I spent some time empathizing with women who’ve been raped and stated that we should punish rapists more fully. He agreed, and I continued:

Tammy: There are most likely students walking on this campus that were conceived from rape. Do you think they are any less valuable than those students who were not conceived in rape?

James. No.

I could see that this was a lightbulb moment for him.

Tammy: So, in which bucket does abortion belong?

James: [after a short pause] Abortion belongs in the bucket with murder.

I again nodded in agreement. We smiled at each other. Then I returned to my earlier question:

Tammy: If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?

James: I’d definitely vote no!

This was such a great moment. I paused to thank God for using me as an instrument to help James have a change of heart so significant that he is now willing even to vote to protect the unborn.

Thank you for your prayers! And thank you so much for your support that makes my work at Justice For All possible. May God bless you.

Note: Click here to read Tammy’s previous newsletter on this topic: “Two Buckets (Part 1).”

Interns in Action (Part 1)

Introducing our intern class for the fall of 2021: Andrea, Rose, Kristina, and Bella.

Since mid-August when JFA’s fall 2021 internship began, interns Andrea, Rose, Kristina, and Bella have spent many hours conducting outreach events and creating conversations to help people change their minds about abortion. This month, Rose and Bella share a window into their experiences in their own words:

Rose: At Wichita State University in August, “Natasha” seemed to be captivated by our sandwich boards on display. I greeted her and asked if she had time to talk about her thoughts on abortion. She smiled and eagerly said, “Yes please, I don’t usually have conversations about this topic.” She mentioned that she was “on the fence” about abortion, but that her mother was pro-life. She proceeded to share and tell stories about her mother’s pregnancies and abortions… we moved to sit down in the shade on a nearby bench… [and] the conversation shifted when we were on the same level sitting down together side by side.

She shared with me that she was minoring in Women’s Studies. I took an interest in that and started asking her questions about… what she was learning. It then turned into a conversation focused on motherhood and the lies the world tells women about what motherhood should look like. She shared with me that many of her friends that have gotten abortions view the situation as “the most tragic and regretful decisions they have ever made.” She also said that after having abortions, most of her friends have become pro-life rather than remaining pro-choice. This statement provided a glimpse of hope for me that women’s hearts and minds can and will be transformed after they have reflected upon and faced healing after abortion.

Rose (center in pink), Kristina (hat), and other JFA team members interact with Wichita State students at a JFA outreach event in late August.

She also mentioned some women in her life that have chosen to be mothers when all the odds seemed against them inspire her. We found common ground in viewing children as blessings rather than burdens, and that babies give women fuel and reasons to fulfill their dreams. At one point in the conversation, I mentioned the pro-life movie Unplanned. About five minutes later, her mother texted her a link to the movie. If that is not God communicating to me that I was talking to the right person at the right time, I don’t know what is. When we ended our conversation she said to me, “Thank you for taking the time to speak with me; you’ve solidified my pro-life views.” That was very rewarding to hear. I was very pleased that I could make a difference through a simple friendly conversation.

Bella: Before coming to JFA I thought I was loving the woman, but I really wasn’t. I would say I cared, but I didn’t understand how to care. I didn’t know how to open my eyes wide enough to take in the entire picture. I was scared that if I even for a moment glimpsed away from the unborn that I would somehow fail them. I didn’t know how to love the woman, have compassion for the person I was talking to, and still fight for the unborn. I realize now that I didn’t have compassion for the woman and the pro-choice advocate because I was still seeing the abortion issue as an Us v. Them, instead of an Us v. Injustice. Once my mindset shifted from seeing [pro-choice advocates] as the enemy, to seeing them as misinformed yet well-intentioned human beings hoping for justice and peace like me, the game changed. Now when I speak with someone who disagrees with me, I genuinely want to listen to them. Through this mindset I have had more fruitful (and surprisingly pleasant) conversations where a lot of progress has been made. I have learned that compassion is never wasted. It’s compassion that invokes us to listen and change…

Yesterday at outreach I was speaking to someone who didn’t have that strong of an opinion on abortion, but was pro-choice because he believed that women should be able to decide what to do with their lives. We walked through the biology and the Equal Rights argument, and he agreed with me all along the way. He then said something along the lines that the embryo just seems so far removed and hard to relate to, I agreed with him but [noted] that the way we look doesn’t define our value as humans. He agreed but then kind of shrugged and said, “That’s just the way society is; I don't know if I’d say it’s wrong—it’s socially acceptable…” I reminded him that at one point racism was socially acceptable and was the norm, but we now know that that was wrong despite the common opinion. He responded, “You are right, and I bet there were people that when they logically thought about it realized that it was wrong, and that’s why we are here today living in a nation that now understands racism is wrong. I guess we need to start educating people about abortion, helping people see what’s actually happening with abortion.” I was shocked that he had said that. I knew that his mind hadn’t completely changed, but he agreed that the divide here is a lack of familiarity and affection for the unborn. People are seeing the unborn as something they are not, so of course it is hard to see where we are coming from.

October 2021 Update: In Part 2, interns Kristina and Andrea share additional reflections.

Interns Kristina Massa (left), Rose Maddock (center), and Bella O’Neill (right) engage three students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Interns Kristina Massa (left), Rose Maddock (center), and Bella O’Neill (right) engage three students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Intern Andrea Thenhaus engages a student in conversation at Colorado Christian Universtiy.

Intern Andrea Thenhaus engages a student in conversation at Colorado Christian Universtiy.

Bella O’Neill in conversation at Tarleton State University, Stephenville, Texas

Bella O’Neill in conversation at Tarleton State University, Stephenville, Texas

Krisitna Massa in conversation at Tarleton State University.

Krisitna Massa in conversation at Tarleton State University.

Rose Maddock engages two students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Rose Maddock engages two students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Rose Maddock (pink tank top) and Kristina Massa (hat) engage students in respectful conversations at Wichita State University in August.

Rose Maddock (pink tank top) and Kristina Massa (hat) engage students in respectful conversations at Wichita State University in August.

An Abortion Conversation in a Jacuzzi?

“I was not planning on talking about abortion. It was Labor Day weekend, and I was at the house of my brother’s boss, “Jim.” I had been trying to set up a meeting with him for awhile to discuss the possibility of financially supporting my work with Justice For All. I knew he was more on the pro-choice side but also knew he was really open to speaking with me. I had prepared notes for this particular conversation, and I had been planning on reviewing them prior to discussing my work. I thought we would meet at a coffee shop at some point. This is the story about how my plan for preparation quickly went out the door and how God made something special out of it.”

I had the opportunity to work through abortion in the case of rape and also talk about the Equal Rights Argument. Click here to read how the whole conversation went.

SFLA Presentation: Links

Don't Follow the Leader

I hope that you had a wonderful Fourth of July celebration with your family!

This year, I went with a friend to watch fireworks. We had a lot of fun. When we got back to my car, I struggled a bit to figure out how to get out of the parking lot. There were tons of people and cars. Everything was a bit chaotic. All of the cars seemed to be going left, which seemed a little odd to me because I was sure there was no outlet in that direction. I am new to the area, and both my friend and I are directionally challenged, so we decided to just follow all of the other cars. Eventually we realized that there really wasn’t an outlet. Everyone had been going in the wrong direction. Finally, we got turned around and out of the parking lot. It is likely that one person thought there was an outlet and others just followed him. 

As I think about that experience, I am reminded of all the times throughout Scripture where Jesus refers to us as sheep. Sheep follow each other without really thinking. Human beings are much the same way. Whether it is something as silly as following a line of cars toward a non-existent exit, or something much more serious like following other’s belief systems about worldview questions, we are prone to follow without thinking.

I have a lot of sympathy for pro-choice people because I know that many of them are following the culture without questioning it. In fact, I am prone to the same mistake. If you think about it, this is actually encouraging because it means many pro-choice people are very persuadable. They are not pro-choice because they have thought about the issue and decided that being pro-choice makes the most sense. Instead, they are pro-choice because they are following the culture without stopping to question it. When we confront them with the truth, many of these people see their mistake and are willing to change their perspective.

The same is true of many non-Christians. They have not thought seriously about the claims of Christ. They have not taken time to study the various religions with an aim to discover the truth. Rather than thinking deeply about Christianity and then rejecting it, many people are simply going with the flow of our culture.

This is exciting. It means that our simple conversations can truly change people’s lives. When we engage people in conversations about abortion, worldviews, and the gospel, we may be helping them to think about these issues for the first time. They may not change their minds on the spot, but we have planted a seed that has the potential to one day bear fruit.

Earlier this month, the JFA team had the joy of training the students at Ellerslie Mission Society. I always love training at Ellerslie because I was first introduced to Justice For All there. It is fun to see everything come full-circle in this way.

Jack Changes His Mind...Three Times

Part 1: A Good Conversation Is a Mirror

One of my favorite conversations from my JFA work is my conversation with “Jack” from 2013. Recently I’ve been sharing it with audiences as an example of the kind of complete change of mind that can happen very quickly. I don’t mean to imply that most JFA conversations result in a conversion this dramatic, but the story does help us catch a glimpse of what is possible with any conversation. Let’s trust that God is working behind the scenes of every conversation, even if we don’t see results like this. -Steve Wagner, July 2021 Impact Report

It was a special treat. In many conversations, the person with whom I’m speaking doesn’t show a clear change of mind. I simply must trust God to work behind the scenes. In one conversation at the University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) in March 2013, though, I had the privilege of watching a young man I’ll call “Jack” change his mind...three times.

“Jack” (right) and Steve ponder pictures of human development and work to discover what explains our equal rights. (Photo by John Michener)

“Jack” (right) and Steve ponder pictures of human development and work to discover what explains our equal rights. (Photo by John Michener)

Jack had talked to someone at our outreach the previous day, so when I asked him where he drew the line on human rights, he was ready with an answer. “At eighteen weeks,” he said. Through a few minutes of clarifying questions from me, he stated that he believed the unborn was a human being biologically, but that the basic right to life began when brain processing was such that the unborn could respond to sound.

He had another reason to draw the line at about eighteen weeks, though: viability. Again, I asked a few questions to clarify what he meant, and he confirmed that he meant that when the unborn could survive outside the womb, even if she required technology, she would have the basic right to life.

“Doesn’t progress in technology move the point of viability earlier and earlier?” I asked.

“That’s a really good point,” Jack pondered. He and I agreed human rights could not be determined by a criterion that could be moved from year to year by technological advances. The first change of mind.

I then raised a problem for Jack to solve. “If all of us walking around the campus deserve equal treatment, we must have something the same about us that demands that we be treated equally. But what is the same about us?”

He had raised the possibility that “brain processing” was the thing that made the unborn valuable at about eighteen weeks. I asked if he meant brain processing itself. When he said, “Yes,” I pointed out that brain processing is something that comes in degrees – we can have more or less of it. Since it’s not something we all have equally, it cannot ground equal rights. He saw the problem.

I gave him another option, though. If he framed his explanation for equal rights as “that we have brain processing at all” then it would be an all-or-nothing property that could potentially ground equal human rights. It was true that all of the adults whose rights we were discussing in the vicinity of the outreach at UTSA did have the property of “having brain processing at all,” and they had that property equally. If Jack was right that this adjusted criterion was the reason for basic rights, then that would account for the equal rights of adults, and it would account for the fact that infants also share those equal rights. In fact, the basic right to life would then extend into the womb to approximately the point he had picked, at eighteen weeks.

I pointed out, though, that this would present an additional problem: then many animals, such as dogs, would also have equal rights to the rest of us, because they also have the property of “having brain processing at all.” Jack made a predictable move at this point and added two additional criteria. “You don’t just have to have ‘brain processing at all’ to have equal rights. You also have to be viable and human.”

I asked him if he could give me an independent reason to believe that value should be based on these three things in combination. I was looking for an independent reason other than “It saves my view that the unborn should only be protected after eighteen weeks, and that whatever rights animals deserve, they shouldn’t be equal to humans.”

He saw the point of my question, and he quickly saw what philosophers would call the ad hoc nature of his argument. His only reason for adjusting his argument was to save it from the implications I drew from it.

I could see the wheels turning. My explanation for equal rights was also on the table – human nature. But the implications of that view were also clear: if human nature is the thing that we all share equally that demands that we be treated equally, then the unborn should be treated equally, too, because the unborn has that same human nature.

“Okay, you’ve convinced me,” he said. “I agree that abortion should only be legal if the mother’s life is in danger.” A second change of mind.

Unlike many students I talk to, who feel they have to put on confident airs or defend their arguments at all costs, Jack clearly wanted something more than to impress me. He wanted to understand truth. He got the truth, and I ended up impressed with him anyway – especially with his humble spirit.

I hadn’t taken a posture of trying to change Jack’s mind. Our conversation functioned more like a mirror, reflecting back to Jack what I heard him telling me. He responded like the happy young chap about to make a business proposal who barely remembers to check the mirror and finds a spot of mustard left unceremoniously on his chin by his lunchtime liverwurst. No one wants to be oblivious to his real state of affairs. There were two factors, though, that especially caused my mirror to be helpful to Jack:

  • Without the skills of clear thinking, the mirror would have failed to reflect certain portions of the image properly. Because I knew the questions to ask, the exact image emerged for Jack. Mastering clear thinking skills takes work, but you can learn to create a helpful reflection for someone like Jack. To take practical steps to begin developing these skills, see www.jfaweb.org/clear-thinking.

  • The image would have become blurry or distorted like that of a carnival mirror had I not had an attitude of humility and goodwill. If I had needed to show Jack my intellectual prowess, he might have felt the need to take me down a peg or two. If I had belittled his views or mocked them, it would have made it harder for him to take the truth seriously. He might have felt the need to defend turf, and he would have been distracted from the truth altogether.

Throughout our conversation, I brought an attitude of partnering to find truth together. I considered his arguments as if they might be true. Because he was worth my time, his arguments were worth my best efforts to evaluate them with him. He looked in the mirror that our conversation was presenting to him, saw his views for what they were, and decided to make a change right then.

I sensed that our work was not finished, though, because Jack and I had not yet confronted the two thorniest aspects of the topic, especially when combined as an argument for legal abortion: bodily rights and rape. Instead of assuming the conversation had been sufficient as a mirror, I decided to turn it into a window. That’s when Jack had his third moment of truth. I’ll explain in Part 2 below.

- Steve Wagner, for the JFA Team

Note: Steve’s conversation with “Jack” took place in March 2013. This report was originally published later that year. Special thanks to John Michener of Oklahomans United for Life for his editing on this piece in 2013. This post has been updated in minor ways and can be shared via www.jfaweb.org/mirror-and-window.


Part 2: A Good Conversation Is a Window

In this report, you’ll see the conclusion of my conversation with Jack from 2013, and you’ll see him change his mind a third time. You’ll see how I gave him a window for viewing the most compelling arguments for abortion, along with compelling responses to them. I hope reading this conversation will not only inspire you to look deeper into the ideas, but that it will also help you see that you can create conversations which compel abortion-choice advocates to change their minds. - Steve Wagner, August 2021 Impact Report

In Part I above, I described how “Jack” in San Antonio abandoned his belief that the unborn only become valuable at viability and then later said I had convinced him that abortion should not be legal except in the case of a threat to the mother’s life.

“Jack” (above, right) initially clarified that he believed abortion should generally be legal. 90 minutes later he said, “Heck” and wrote on the Free Speech Board (below). He told me that he now thought abortion should not be legal even in the case of rape.

“Jack” (above, right) initially clarified that he believed abortion should generally be legal. 90 minutes later he said, “Heck” and wrote on the Free Speech Board (below). He told me that he now thought abortion should not be legal even in the case of rape.

These two changes of mind were encouraging, but I sensed that our work was not finished. We hadn’t yet discussed arguments claiming that even if the unborn is a human being, the woman’s right to her body justifies abortion. I knew that if we didn’t address these bodily rights arguments, especially compelling in the case of rape, Jack might be shaken when he encountered them.

In the first part of the conversation, Jack had been making the claims, and I had been functioning as a mirror to help him assess his own views about abortion. Now I set out to function more like a window, showing Jack other arguments out there that he hadn’t considered yet.

I began by explaining what former JFA intern Trent Horn called the “Sovereign Zone” view: A woman can do anything she wants with anything in her body, and because the unborn is inside her body, the woman can kill the unborn. I pointed out that if a woman has the right to do anything with anything that is inside her body, then many things would be justified legally, including intentionally deforming the unborn by taking thalidomide and intentionally torturing the unborn late in the pregnancy through dismemberment abortion. (See “Autumn in the Sovereign Zone” at www.jfaweb.org/body for more on this approach.)

Seeing the implications of the Sovereign Zone view clearly through this window, Jack and I agreed it had to be abandoned. I knew that there was a stronger version of the bodily rights argument that was not so easily dismantled, though, and I went on to tell Jack about it.

Sure, it’s obvious that a woman can’t do anything to anything that is inside her body. But can she be forced to allow the unborn to do something to her body – to use her body to sustain its life? Or does she have a right to refuse? As Trent Horn has pointed out, unlike the Sovereign Zone argument, which is based on a very controversial premise, this “Right to Refuse” argument is based on a very uncontroversial premise: Generally speaking, you can’t be forced to do something with your body you don’t want to do.

It’s not only pro-choice advocates who find this argument plausible. I find it plausible. If you find yourself hooked up to someone who needs your kidney to live, you can’t be forced to stay hooked up. How then can a government force a woman to stay hooked up to her unborn child? And worse, what if the woman didn’t consent to intimacy? Can a woman who is pregnant from rape be forced to continue to use her body to sustain the unborn’s life? As Jack and I pondered these questions together, I noted how compelling this line of reasoning is. Even if it holds only in the case of rape and therefore applies to no more than 1.5% of abortions in America, it’s troubling.

It’s important to note that throughout this conversation I emphasized genuine sympathy for those who have been raped. This is imperative in any conversation about rape and abortion, but especially when that conversation involves complicated intellectual arguments. We should never get so caught up in our ideas that we forget the people affected by them. This is not just true with the topic of rape, but also with any appeal to bodily rights. (Please see “Meeting the Relational Challenge” at www.jfaweb.org/body for more on this.)

I then shared two parables with Jack that indicate there’s something amiss with the Right to Refuse argument, even in the case of rape. I’ll share just a snapshot of one of them here, and you can see a full treatment of the approach I used with Jack in a paper we published online in April 2013: “De Facto Guardian and Abortion.” (You can find this paper, along with newer resources with alternative approaches at www.jfaweb.org/body.)

In the movie Up, Carl (inset image, white hair) sets his house free from the ground, flies thousands of feet in the air, and then hears a knock at the door. The young explorer Russell has stowed away on the porch and is about to fall off. Is Carl obligated to take him in? Should the law expect him to give Russell food and shelter? What if he has to use his body to pour water or cut bread for Russell? Does this change the obligation?

Jack agreed that Carl does have an obligation to use his body to support Russell’s life. He also agreed this should be a legal obligation. One explanation of this obligation is that Carl just happens to be, for whatever reason, the only person in the vicinity who can care for Russell. We called Carl a de facto guardian because it seems he has the same obligations as that of a parent or guardian, though temporarily.

The woman pregnant from rape is similarly situated to Carl. She didn’t ask to be in the situation where she would be the only person in the vicinity who could care for a child. But she is. If the de facto guardian principle holds, then, she has an obligation (and, as we argue, what should be a legal obligation) to give the child in her womb the food and shelter he needs. She has the obligation to care for the child even if she didn’t consent to that obligation, and even if she doesn’t feel like a parent. We, in turn, should surround her with support.

After writing this comment towards the end of our conversation, Jack told me that he now thought abortion should not be legal even in the case of rape.

After writing this comment towards the end of our conversation, Jack told me that he now thought abortion should not be legal even in the case of rape.

After discussing this strongest version of the Right to Refuse argument and how it fared in light of our intuitions about parables like the Up story, Jack said, “Heck” and wrote on the Free Speech Board, “Life will force you into situations you don’t necessarily want but have to deal with nonetheless.” He then verbalized to me that abortion should not be legal, even early in the pregnancy and even in the case of rape.

I saw this third change as more significant than Jack’s previous changes of mind. Now I was satisfied that I had created a window so he could see clearly the very best arguments for legal abortion before rejecting them. Evidently I did a good job of presenting those arguments, because at one point Jack said I was making him start to waver and think abortion might be justified. As you can imagine, I created this window for Jack with some fear and trembling. Why risk someone wavering back toward the pro-choice position? Even worse, why risk someone becoming a more confident pro-choice advocate with better arguments?

There are two reasons my fears didn’t keep me from creating a window for Jack. First, truth is not fragile. It will shine through if we ask the right questions and apply our minds to the study of sound reasoning. Second, Jack is a human being who is intrinsically valuable. He’s not an opportunity to make a convert. He deserves my best efforts to create conversation that is both a mirror and a window.

- Steve Wagner, for the JFA Team

Note: Steve’s conversation with “Jack” took place in March 2013. This report was originally published later that year. Special thanks to John Michener of Oklahomans United for Life for his editing on this piece in 2013. This post has been updated in minor ways and can be shared via www.jfaweb.org/mirror-and-window.

Postscript

JFA’s “Stop and Think” Exhibit is reflected in the windows of a building at Colorado State University in 2016.  In a way, JFA’s Exhibits also function as both a mirror and a window - reflecting back to people the reality of what their views entail and giving people insight into topics and ideas they may never have thought about.  You can see all of JFA’s Exhibits at our Exhibits page.

JFA’s “Stop and Think” Exhibit is reflected in the windows of a building at Colorado State University in 2016. In a way, JFA’s Exhibits also function as both a mirror and a window - reflecting back to people the reality of what their views entail and giving people insight into topics and ideas they may never have thought about. You can see all of JFA’s Exhibits at our Exhibits page.

Links for Live Action Activists

Today, I will be sharing my presentation, “Transforming Conversations with Common Ground,” at the Live Action Activist Training session in San Francisco (listed as “Common Ground Without Compromise” on the schedule). Thanks to JFA trainers Rebekah and Mary for sharing conversation stories during the presentation. This post contains links to things I mentioned in my talk, as well as additional resources to help you grow in the art of dialogue and finding common ground:

Take a Next Step

Stories

More Links for Connecting with JFA

More Stories and Resources

“Once I Talked to One, I Couldn't Stop”

A student named Corrie shared this short summary of JFA’s training program back in 2015:

I loved the training and the outreach. I feel like the training prepared me well for the outreach. I was terrified to talk to anyone and made a goal to talk to just one person. Once I talked to one, I couldn't stop. I realized they're just people.

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Imagine for a moment that every follower of Christ caught Corrie’s vision of talking to pro-choice advocates, seeing that “they’re just people” and “I need to talk to them.” Imagine that every follower of Christ also caught hold of Corrie’s feeling that “I can talk to anyone.”

How did Corrie get to this place? In partnership with Christian Heritage Academy, we prepared her and went with her to a college campus, where she “made a goal to talk to just one person.”

That’s why we build this goal into every in-person seminar, every online workshop session, and every outreach event we create: we want every follower of Christ to have the experience of talking to just one person. Then we’re confident he or she will say, along with Corrie, “Once I talked to one, I couldn’t stop.” If Christians would “talk to one” and then find they “cannot stop” talking to all of the people in their sphere of influence, public opinion on abortion could shift very quickly.

Thanks for praying with us and for partnering with us as we train each one to talk to one!


Recent Instagram Post

Free Speech Board from JFA Outreach Event at University of Oklahoma in March 2021.

Free Speech Board from JFA Outreach Event at University of Oklahoma in March 2021.

A Conversation with a Planned Parenthood Volunteer

Impact Report, May 2021

Note: Sometimes it’s a blessing in disguise to be in the dark. In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Mary St. Hilaire describes an unforgettable conversation with “Ashley” that highlights a valuable lesson for all of us: Give the benefit of the doubt. Because Ashley wasn’t forthcoming with her views, Mary was allowed to simply enjoy Ashley’s company as they talked. It appears this helped Ashley consider Mary’s pro-life beliefs with a more open mind. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director


Mary (sitting) interacts with a student at University of Oklahoma at a JFA outreach event in March 2021.

I walked up to “Ashley” while she was studying a cluttered free speech board at a Justice For All (JFA) event. I asked her if she had thoughts about abortion, and behind a grin, she replied that she did but that she was “just looking.” She expressed how interesting it was to read the array of comments from people on both sides of the issue. I agreed and began reading them with her. After a minute or so, she turned to me and asked what my thoughts were. As I began to share my pro-life perspective with Ashley, I wondered what she was thinking, what her position was, and what kind of person she might be. My first impression was that she certainly seemed to be a genuinely kind and joyful person. She had a captivating smile and laugh which put me at ease. I felt comfortable sharing my beliefs even though I was ignorant of hers. I figured that she couldn’t be extremely pro-choice or she would have had a lot more to say to me.

After briefly sharing my thoughts, she began asking me more about myself, my job, and how I became involved with JFA. I told her I was working with JFA full-time and that I loved it.

Ashley: [with a huge smile] That makes me so happy! I’m so glad you have found something you love. I’m curious: Are your pro-life beliefs a result of your faith?

Mary: Yes and no! I was raised Catholic, and the Catholic Church teaches that human life is sacred and valuable from the moment of conception until natural death. But, as an adult I have also looked at the science and the non-religious arguments as to why the unborn are human and deserving of the right to life. So, yeah, my faith has definitely influenced my pro-life beliefs, but I can also base those beliefs on science.

Ashley: That makes total sense!

It was at this point that she finally began to open up about her own opinion of abortion. I was truly enjoying Ashley’s company and conversation, so I was excited to hear her thoughts.

Ashley: In the past several years I kind of took a step back from my faith, but I was raised Christian, so I can totally understand where you’re coming from. I like coming to these types of events because I really want to educate myself on both sides of different political and moral issues and I don’t know that I’ve made up my mind on the issue of abortion yet.

Thoroughly impressed by Ashley’s maturity and honesty, I wanted to find out more.

Mary: I think it’s great that you are really searching for the truth! Can I ask...do you think the unborn is biologically human?

Ashley didn’t know anything about the biology of the unborn and was open to hearing my thoughts. After I quickly shared some scientific evidence, she agreed the unborn is biologically human. I then shifted the conversation to the topic of equal rights outside of the womb.

Mary: Let’s take a break from the unborn for a second. Ashley, what do you think gives you and me and everyone here on campus equal value? I think we can both agree that we should be treated equally, despite all our differences. So it makes sense to say there must be something we all share that grounds our equality, right?

Ashley: Absolutely! We’re all human. So I guess it’s a question of, “Is the unborn the same kind of human as you and I?” and if so, then abortion would be killing an innocent human being.

Mary: I think you’re right.

I was surprised at how easily Ashley understood my train of thought. Then suddenly, almost out of nowhere and to my utter shock, Ashley nonchalantly told me more of her story.

Ashley: I volunteer at Planned Parenthood because I really care about women and I want to help give them more accessible birth control, so I table with them on campus. I know they provide abortion services, which I don’t really like, but I think it’s a pretty small percentage of what they do...what do you think about Planned Parenthood?

As shocked as I was by this new discovery, I tried to gently and graciously share the truth about Planned Parenthood with Ashley.

Mary: I think it’s awesome that you are going out of your way to help women! As far as Planned Parenthood goes, I know they do other things than abortion, but I think you’d be surprised at how much of their business is actually abortion. Whatever the case may be about that, it really does come down to that question, “Is the unborn a valuable human being with the right to life?” because if so, it doesn’t matter whether or not abortion is their number one money-maker or just something they’re doing on the side. It’s that they are doing it at all that matters. We wouldn’t support an animal shelter that provides services for animals, but also abuses some of their animals on the side, would we?

Ashley: [nodding] Yeah, for sure. I get what you’re saying. I guess I’m just still trying to decide what I believe about the unborn.

Mary: That’s totally understandable.

It was at this point that a pro-life student who had been listening in on our conversation interjected, asking if Ashley had heard of the movie Unplanned, the story of former Planned Parenthood clinic director Abby Johnson and her conversion. He explained the storyline and encouraged her to watch it. I almost couldn’t believe my ears when Ashley replied that she had heard of it and sincerely promised that she would “definitely look into it.” As our conversation drew to a close, Ashley turned to me and said, “You’ve really given me a lot to think about!” I expressed how much I had enjoyed talking with her.

I would have believed her to be the exact opposite of the person she really was.

As I walked away from this conversation, I had to pause and take a moment to process what had just happened. Ashley is by far the kindest person I have ever encountered on campus and perhaps one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. She was genuinely interested in my life and my beliefs; she shared in the joy of my success with JFA despite disagreement on the issue of abortion; she was caring and compassionate towards women and children; she was gracious and respectful to me and other pro-life volunteers she encountered; and yet, she was also a Planned Parenthood volunteer. If I had met Ashley last year, before going through JFA training, and she had started our conversation by saying she volunteered for Planned Parenthood, I would have made a million assumptions about what she believed and who she was. I would have presumed her to be radically pro-abortion, close-minded, and hostile. I would have believed her to be the exact opposite of the person she really was.

As pro-life advocates who are passionate about defending the sacredness of human life and ending the injustice of abortion, it’s easy for us to assume the worst about people who disagree with us. We forget the fact that most pro-choice people, especially many who work in the abortion industry, care about women and children. We must remind ourselves that there are kind people with good intentions on both sides of the issue, but we will only ever discover this and make an impact in their lives if we take the time to get to know them, not with presumption or hatred but with graciousness and love. I am so thankful that this encounter with Ashley helped me to see this more clearly.

- Mary St. Hilaire, for the JFA Team

Contact Mary: Web - Instagram - Facebook


A Note from JFA Executive Director, Steve Wagner:

In my April letter, I described a core value of JFA’s internship program: our interns don’t make coffee. Instead, they learn the art of using dialogue to change hearts and minds about abortion. Then they learn the art of training others to do the same. Along the way, we rely on God to give these young people courage to do amazing things they never thought possible. Rebekah Dyer illustrated this by sharing how God is using a personal weakness to teach her to trust his strength.

Mary St. Hilaire interacts with a University of New Mexico student during her internship in February 2020.

Not only are our interns-turned-trainers learning skills to train large and small groups, as Rebekah described. They also glean new insights from regular outreach conversations, allowing them to place their unique stamp on our training program.

Recent Instagram Post: In this classic photo, JFA intern Trent Horn engages in an animated examination of a textbook with a student while Jon Wagner and I look on. Trent and I recently discussed memories of his early days with JFA on his podcast, The Counsel of Trent. Now a staff apologist with Catholic Answers, Trent models for thousands the art of changing minds about abortion through radio, writing, and speaking. Click the photo to share via Instagram! - Steve Wagner

Recent Instagram Post: In this classic photo, JFA intern Trent Horn engages in an animated examination of a textbook with a student while Jon Wagner and I look on. Trent and I recently discussed memories of his early days with JFA on his podcast, The Counsel of Trent. Now a staff apologist with Catholic Answers, Trent models for thousands the art of changing minds about abortion through radio, writing, and speaking. Click the photo to share via Instagram! - Steve Wagner

Mary St. Hilaire, a JFA trainer who began her work as an intern in 2020, provides a good example of this in JFA’s May Impact Report (above). Through this conversation, Mary gained perspective she can now share with each person she trains.

We are excited to report that we’re currently working to fill three internship slots for fall 2021. Each intern will learn the same skills Mary and Rebekah have been mastering beautifully. Do you want to support our incoming interns? Here are two ways you can help: (1) Continue supporting any JFA trainer’s work; each trainer pours into the lives of our interns. (2) Designate a gift for the Intern Scholarship Fund, which allows interns to “test the waters” of working for JFA without first having to assemble a long-term support team. Thank you for your support!