Is What I do Hateful?

I had a conversation with one of the protestors at Adams State University.

A university-led protest by the Equity Board set up a booth across the street from our display at Adams State University in April. I crossed the street to engage the protestors and talked to a young woman as she was making a very vulgar sign to protest our display. Surprisingly, I had a good conversation with her.

Shortly after I went back to our display, I saw a sign someone else made that said something like “Jesus was about love, not hate.”

I enjoyed talking to one of the ministry leader's children in Alamosa, Colorado.

A few minutes later, I struck up a conversation with a young woman I’ll call “Anna” at our poll-table. I believe she may have created the sign because she told me that she is a Christian and thought abortion was generally murder in a lot of cases. She then proceeded to tell me that the Justice For All display was “hateful” and “made people feel bad.” She told me Jesus was about love and our display didn’t help the discussion on abortion.

Instead of getting defensive about her comments, I knew it was important to ask her some questions. What about our display is hateful? How do you think we should go about talking to students? I also asked her if someone gets upset with her, does she think that automatically means she did something wrong?

I clarified to Anna that our goal is not to make people “feel bad.” Given that abortion is killing a vulnerable human being in the womb, though, it’s reasonable and healthy for people to “feel bad” if they have taken part in purposefully ending their unborn child’s life. Those feelings mean their conscience is functioning correctly. Part of the healing process is recognizing the wrong committed. Pretending that abortion isn’t that bad or that it’s not really killing a human being is not loving to anyone. It’s lying to them. We need to face what abortion really is and do so under the cross where Jesus bled and died so that our sins could be forgiven.

I talked to “Anna” and some of her friends who were with her.

I found out by asking other questions that some of her animus had to do with seeing some people interact harshly with condemnation towards others about these types of issues. Anna told me at one point that her Jesus just talked about love. I agreed with Anna that Jesus did talk about love, and we went on to talk about what love means and looks like. I clarified that we cannot understand love apart from God who is love. Jesus says in John 14:15, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” Jesus summarized the commandments by telling us to love God and love our neighbor. Loving our neighbors includes not killing them.

Many people claim to know what Jesus was about, but they don’t get their understanding of who Jesus is and what he taught from reading His words in their entirety and in context. It's absolutely true that Jesus was loving, but I pointed out to Anna that when you read the gospels, Jesus also made a lot of people angry because he confronted them about their sins and some of the injustices happening around them. As Christians we are supposed to speak up for the vulnerable and those who cannot speak for themselves. We are called to confront injustice precisely because we love people. When we do this, some people will get angry.

There is a lot of work to do in convincing pro-choice advocates that abortion is violating the immense dignity of another human being. There is also much work to do in helping some Christians think clearly about this issue. It’s not safe to assume that because someone claims to know Jesus they think clearly about abortion. A significant number do not.

1 John 2:4-6 says, “Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.” Many things go along with keeping God’s commandments. A basic one is not killing another human being. Abortion is a grave injustice taking place around us every day. Far too many people in our culture ignore the unborn’s humanity and the basic right for unborn children to live free from violence and harm. We are supposed to be the hands and feet of Jesus to people on this earth. One of the ways we should do this is to hold back those who are staggering to the slaughter. (Proverbs 24:10-12)

Injustice made Jesus angry. It should make us angry too. “Be angry and do not sin.” (Psalm 4:4) This is part of loving God and loving others. Let that anger move us to act faithfully and justly because we love God and love the people he created —including the ones in the womb. Let us not forget them.

A Better Conversation About Abortion

The controversial and sometimes personal nature of the abortion issue understandably makes it a topic that many people avoid discussing. Even though Roe v. Wade was overturned in 2022, the number of abortions in the United States has been increasing for the last couple years to around one million annually, according to the latest reports. The need for continued civil engagement with our fellow citizens is paramount. 

We rub shoulders every day with people who believe preborn children are different from us and therefore can be killed in the womb. Their deaths are shrugged off as a “woman’s choice” and we are told to believe that abortion is “healthcare.” 

One reason the injustice of abortion is incredibly difficult to combat is because we don’t have to physically see the dead bodies of these preborn children in our day-to-day lives. Their deaths are hidden from public view and their dead bodies discarded under the cover of “medical waste.” Whenever we do see images of the aftermath of abortion, we quickly push the images out of our minds or we criticize those who have the boldness to show abortion for what it is. When bad ideas and worldviews are not challenged and corrected vigorously and regularly by people, they lead to humans being dehumanized and killed. 

Conversations are an important place where minds begin to change. They are the place where citizens exchange ideas, and those ideas make their way into legislatures. Our world becomes a safer place for the vulnerable when human beings are valued from their conception. For some, starting a conversation about the preborn and abortion may seem terrifying, while for others, maybe it’s not challenging at all. Maybe for others it’s something in the middle. Regardless of where you find yourself in this mix, here are some tips I have learned from my own experiences that can make your conversations productive. 

Listen to understand and ask questions for clarification 

One of the reasons good conversations about abortion and other controversial issues are rare is because many people don’t take time to carefully listen to others. It is easy to enter discussions in debate mode ready to counter any incorrect idea the other person shares. When both people go in with their defenses up, each person plans what their next response will be instead of trying to understand what the person is saying and why she is saying it. People don’t respond well when it feels like a constant game of who can one-up the other person with a response that will show her how “dumb” or how “wrong” she is.  

If we take the time to sit down with someone else, side by side, and hear her story and her reasons for the beliefs she holds, we will have a better chance of making a more persuasive case for our beliefs when that time comes. We shouldn’t merely listen well though just because it can open up better opportunities to change her mind in the future. We should take the time to listen well to others because it shows the other person you see her, that what she is saying matters, and what she experiences matters. It shows her we care about her life. 

Asking good questions is also a crucial part of good conversations. Good dialogue will not happen unless you understand where this person is coming from. Asking questions shows we want to understand the other person better and shows we are being attentive and sensitive to important details about her background and beliefs. Here are some of the questions I find really helpful to ask in my own conversations: 

• What makes this issue important to you?

• What do you think about abortion?

• Where do you find yourself in the abortion debate? 

• What do you mean when you say pro-choice or pro-life? 

• How did you come to be pro-choice or pro-life?  

• Do you think abortion should be legal for all nine months of pregnancy or only a portion of that time? 

• How have conversations about abortion gone for you in the past?

• Have you always had this view or has it changed for you over time? If it’s changed, how did that change of view happen? 

• Do you know anyone that has had an abortion? 

Find common ground whenever possible

Despite our many differences, human beings have a lot in common. Finding common ground means taking the time to highlight agreement, and it creates a better place to discuss difficult things. Human beings by nature deeply desire community and love. We want to be respected, accepted, listened to, and protected. 

When we talk to a pro-choice person, the stakes for her changing her mind are high. She has to come to terms with the fact that she has been supporting the killing of innocent children in the womb. Maybe she has to face the fact that she killed their own child. Or maybe she helped someone else end the life of their child. It’s like she has to slide down a cliff with jagged rocks waiting for her at the bottom. We can help ease her fall and mitigate the pain and injury. We would want someone else to help us down that same cliff as gently as possible, so let’s do that for others by how we communicate with them. 

There are a tremendous amount of painful, weighty things people have to work through when faced with the opportunity to change their mind about abortion. Having to acknowledge that you have been wrong about something so important feels crushing for some. Remembering that we all have been mistaken about things in the past will help us humbly and patiently stand alongside another person as they make these shifts in their view.

I recommend reading Common Ground Without Compromise by Stephen Wagner to get practical ideas on how you can find common ground in conversations with those who disagree with you.

Generally use the labels the other side prefers

It’s helpful to use the preferred labels each side uses to describe their view. This might sound more controversial up front. Here’s what I mean. Some pro-lifers in conversation with a pro-choice person insist that she is “pro-abortion” even if the person has just said she is “pro-choice.” When she says she is not “pro-abortion” the pro-life person asks her what choice she is for and when she says something like the “right of a woman to choose abortion,” the pro-life person says she is “pro-abortion.” This rhetorical move is not helpful if your goal is good conversation that can lead to a changed mind. Imagine how it feels for pro-lifers when people insist we are just “pro-birth.” We don’t like it when people reframe our position in a way that sounds foreign to us. People are not going to be as open as they would be otherwise if they feel like they are just being cornered and told by others what their view is. 

It’s not because I don’t think labels or ways people describe themselves are important. I agree the words we use to describe ourselves should be accurate, and I can understand the desire to attack the “choice” language since a preborn child’s death shouldn’t be reduced to such a positive-sounding sentiment. 

We have so many problems to deal with and so many bad ideas to dismantle in conversations about abortion. I look at it this way: there are primary and secondary issues. The primary issue is that abortion kills a human being, and I want to help people understand that. If that means I have to tolerate or ignore the “choice” language, I am willing to do that. The conversation should be focused on the humanity of the preborn child and how their rights are gravely violated by abortion. If we do this, the labels will fix themselves in the long run. 

We have a limited amount of time with the people in front of us, and it is important to use that time in the best way possible. I want them to get a little closer to understanding the violence and evil of abortion. I have found I have a much better chance of doing that when I ignore the inaccurate aspects of their labels and focus on the humanity of preborn children. If I helped the person have a more accurate label but did not help her have a more accurate view of the preborn, I don’t think I used my time very wisely.

Conclusion

Talking about abortion doesn’t have to be as difficult as it may seem. If you use these tips, I’m confident you will have good conversations. Some of my early conversations were not productive because I didn’t use these skills, and I said things I shouldn’t have. While I wish I could go back and do some of those conversations over again, I’m also thankful I didn’t just give up and walk away. 

It’s important that we are willing to make mistakes in conversations because the fact that we are making mistakes is a normal part of engaging others in important conversations in the pursuit of justice. Don’t let the fear of bad conversations keep you from saying anything at all. Let those conversations that didn’t go so well in the past propel you to study more, seek advice from mentors, and be willing to try again. The more you do that, the better advocate you will become. 

To get trained to utilize these skills in difficult conversations, consider attending a Justice For All pro-life apologetics seminar. If there is no in-person option that works for you, consider taking our online Love3 Workshops. 

A Difficult Answer to a Difficult Question

I talked to a thoughtful high school student who told me I opened his mind.

I get asked many difficult questions in my conversations with students at universities. One question I get asked in nearly every conversation is, “What about abortion in the case of rape?” In May, I was at UCLA on Bruin Walk, and a woman I’ll call “Taylor” asked me if I thought abortion should be legal in this difficult circumstance, especially if the victim is really young.

I said something like:

Given the recent unrest at UCLA, I wasn’t sure how the outreach event would go, but we had two productive days of civil conversations!

I have a hard time emotionally with my own answer to this question. My heart doesn’t want to tell a rape victim that she can’t do something that she feels will help her heal. If she wants something, I just want to say “Yes” to her.  I want her to get all the care, help, and counseling she needs. I think we can agree what happened to her was wrong and evil. She should be separated from the abuser and protected from any future abuse.

A way that I help myself process this question is by imagining a twelve-year-old girl who gets pregnant from rape and decides to continue the pregnancy. Then after she gives birth, she’s now thirteen and thinks to herself, “I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m only thirteen and can’t care for a child.” Would we allow her to kill her child? Clearly the answer is no.

I bring this up because I believe a child in the womb is equally human to the newborn in this scenario. I want to come up with non-violent solutions here. I am against rape because it’s a violent act against an innocent person, and that’s precisely why I’m also against abortion. It is also a violent act against another human being.

Taylor then shared with me that she was a victim of rape. She was assaulted when she was very young, became pregnant from the rape, and then had a miscarriage. She told me she liked how I had answered the question and that it made sense. She also said she appreciated that I didn’t bring up the 1% figure that many pro-life people cite. I asked her if bringing up that percentage felt dismissive to her as a rape victim. She said that it does.

A common response to abortion in the case of rape is to highlight that only around 1% of abortions are due to rape. While this statistic is true based on the research available (see www.jfaweb.org/facts), I generally don’t bring this up. With about a million abortions happening every year, an estimated 10,000 women have abortions every year because they were raped. That’s a lot of women dealing with horrific trauma.

It’s not that I never share this statistic. It is helpful to know, and some people ask me about it. It’s important, though, that we don’t rush into sharing this statistic and neglect showing concern and compassion for victims of rape. If we aren’t careful here, we risk sounding callous and indifferent to victims of rape.

During our conversation, Taylor told me I was the first pro-life person to have a calm conversation with her. That was disheartening for me to hear, but I was also thankful God gave me the opportunity to give her a good experience discussing the issue of abortion. We went on to talk about some other traumatic experiences in her life, her religious upbringing, the Bible, and some of her beliefs about God.

I face two general challenges in every conversation I have with students. One is giving intellectually satisfying answers to all the questions, statements, and arguments people bring up to defend abortion. The other challenge is being emotionally sensitive to the person and to the difficult things each person has been through. It’s the challenge of knowing how to answer each person (Colossians 4:6). It’s a conversation rooted in love for other people and a deep love for and commitment to the truth. It’s the kind of conversation I get to have all over the country because of your support. Thank you for standing with me.

"I'd Rather Be Aborted."

I saw this sticker on an electrical box near Planned Parenthood when I was sidewalk counseling.

“I’d rather be aborted.” “I wish I was aborted.” I’ve had people say things like this to me in conversations. I’ve seen the sentiment on a sticker on an electrical box outside Planned Parenthood and written on JFA’s Free Speech Board.

These kinds of statements demand a careful, compassionate response rather than a quick retort or an argument.

Sometimes I’ve heard pro-life people respond by saying something like, “Well, if you were aborted, you wouldn’t be here.” For many people, that was precisely the point they were trying to make: “I wish I was dead.”

For someone to say she’d rather be dead speaks to something much deeper that needs our attention. A person’s view on the killing of vulnerable human beings by abortion is important, and we do need to dismantle bad ideas and worldviews. It is equally important, though, to care for her personal life and experience.

A student wrote this on our Free Speech Board at Texas Woman’s University in March 2024

If a person can’t see her own value and would rather be dead, it’s likely she is going to have a difficult time understanding the incredible value an unborn child has. In my experience, most conversations about abortion aren’t purely intellectual. It’s not just about presenting good arguments for the equal rights of unborn human beings, as important as that is. It’s about so much more than this.

For those who may disagree with my response so far, I’d like to clarify that I’m not saying people must understand their own worth before they can see value in others. I think it’s possible for people to not see themselves as valuable and still respect and honor someone else’s right to life. What I am saying is that the fact that the person may not value her own life is an important piece of the conversation, and we shouldn’t ignore it.

The “I wish I had been aborted” statements could be coming from a suicidal place, but they could also be a way someone is trying to describe a painful part of her current experience. Pain and suffering wear on people and can lead them to use language that expresses a desire to die even if they may not literally mean that.

The personal, painful places in people’s lives often come up when I’m talking to people at universities across the country. While it can be challenging to deal with the emotional trauma people have, it’s good to understand those parts of people’s lives because those experiences matter. They inform how this person sees the world and how she views other people.

The truth is better understood and more easily received when people know we love them. Taking time to listen carefully to others and being slow to speak is a special gift we can extend to everyone.

Be willing to go slow with people. Listen to what they are saying. Listen to what they are not saying. Watch their body language and their expressions. Their stories and the reasons for their views are worth your time.

I think if we start with this relational approach with people, we will reach their hearts, and that in turn can make them more inclined to hear the intellectual arguments we will make. This can play a great part in influencing how they think about the value of their lives and the lives of unborn children. When we do this, I believe we will not only help people by helping bear their burdens, but we will also help foster a world that is safer for vulnerable human beings in the womb.

Once we take care to be relationally sensitive to the “I’d rather be aborted” statement, we need to focus on a question that is often overlooked in conversation: “What is the unborn?” That is a question that we must answer when discussing abortion because the whole issue largely hinges on how people answer that question.

People for and against legal abortion do not disagree that issues like poverty, abuse in foster care, not feeling ready for a child, and similar concerns are important. What we disagree about is how many people are involved in these situations. If abortion is not killing a human being like you and me, then only one human is involved, and abortion should be legal. But if the unborn is a human like you and me, then in every pregnancy we have more than one human being – the mother and the child – and both of them should be protected legally from violence.

Once we clarify this, I think it’s interesting to think about the “I’d rather be aborted” statement in terms of “forcing” a particular view of suffering on someone else since the result of abortion is a dead human being. Generally when people use the “forcing a view on someone else” language, it’s not accurate since “force” involves some kind of violence or threat of violence. Often people are accused of this when they are just having conversations and exchanging ideas in the public square. Having conversations isn’t violence. But abortion is violence. It ends the life of the unborn child. If one person says she’d rather be aborted, that view of life and suffering should not be forced on an innocent child via abortion.

One person may believe it’s better to die than to suffer. Maybe she wishes she had been aborted. It’s important to sympathize with her feelings of despair and not dismiss them. Since more than one human being is involved in pregnancy, though, we should also consider the rights and perspective of this other individual.

Maybe the unborn child will appreciate and be grateful for her life even in the midst of suffering. Maybe she will see her suffering as an opportunity to overcome and be stronger. We don’t know given that we cannot communicate with her. Yet. So who are we to force a particular view of suffering (that it is worse to suffer than to live) on her by killing her before she even gets a chance to express what her will and desires are?

If we can clarify that the unborn child is human like you and me, then it doesn’t make sense to use future suffering of the child or our own current suffering to justify killing her. What makes us think that we have the right to look at someone else’s life, judge how much she might suffer, and then kill her so she doesn’t have to go through the suffering? Someone else should not be given the power to look at your life and end it based on her beliefs about your future suffering and the best way to address suffering. In the same way, we cannot and should not make that call for someone else’s life

Masked Conversations

February 2024 Impact Report

When our team conducts campus outreach, we start conversations with people of all different types. What’s pretty common among all of this diversity, though, is the tendency for people to hide behind various kinds of masks. On Halloween every year, these masks are visible. On all other days, the masks are invisible but nonetheless present.

In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Rebekah Dyer tells the story of one conversation that had both the visible type of mask and the invisible type of mask. In the conversation, she modeled an excellent approach each of us can use as Christian ambassadors to build trust in order to help people come out from behind their masks and partner with us in finding truth.

Steve Wagner, Executive Director

Rebekah spoke with another masked man on Halloween at the University of North Texas (UNT) in fall 2023.

On Halloween last year, I was at the University of North Texas, and I noticed a man in a scary, tan-colored mask with no mouth and black eyes. He was looking at our embryology pictures.

I asked him what he thought about abortion. He shrugged and motioned to his mask. An interesting interaction ensued as I asked him questions, and he tried to answer with hand motions. Here’s the gist of the conversation that followed:

At UNT, a banana signed “No, abortion should not be legal.” Seth (hat) is visible talking to another student.

“Wait,” I asked, “can you not talk in the mask?” He nodded. “Is it that tight?” He nodded again. “How long have you been wearing it?” He made a motion with his hands. “You’ve been wearing it for twenty-one hours?” I asked, surprised. With an exasperated sigh he motioned again. “Two and a half hours?” I guessed again. He nodded vigorously. “Wow!” I said. “Well, if you want to chat, I’ll be around.”

“This is gonna look bad, but I’m going to sign,” said the Grim Reaper to JFA trainer Kristina at UNT. Then she proceeded to sign “Yes” on our poll.

I stepped away to make some notes about another conversation I had had that day. A few minutes later the student took off his mask, and we began to have a normal conversation. “Landon” told me he was in the middle on this issue. As I asked him questions, he shared that he thought abortion should be broadly legal so that women who have life-threatening complications during pregnancy have access to abortion. He shared that he had a friend who had been raped and had gotten pregnant at thirteen years old. This friend had also had seven abortions. Landon also told me people should be educated about abortion so that they know that it kills another human being.

As we spoke, I was hearing some conflicting things from Landon, so I asked the following question to help clarify some of the confusion:

Rebekah: What if we could have a law that made elective abortion broadly illegal, but had an exception for cases where the life of the mother is in danger?

Landon: Oh, that’s brilliant!

Rebekah: That’s what the current law is in Texas.

Landon was surprised and told me he agreed with the current law. As our conversation began to wind down he confessed something to me:

Landon: I need to apologize to you. I lied to you earlier. I can talk just fine in this mask. I was worried that you were going to yell at me when I walked up. I wanted to check out the signs, but I didn’t want to talk to anyone.

Rebekah: Thank you for telling me. I forgive you. I can understand why it might feel intimidating to come up to this display if you have that fear.

During our conversation, he shared with me that he was a Christian. Whenever someone tells me he is a Christian, I always ask him what he means by that. Landon answered by referencing the Nicene Creed.

This conversation highlights a few important things. First, if we jump to challenging people the moment we hear something with which we disagree, we can easily talk past them and address a view they don’t hold. In every conversation, it is crucial that we ask good questions and listen in order to understand the other person’s views. Landon went from sounding like he was in the middle on this issue, to sounding very pro-choice, to finally clarifying that he was actually opposed to the vast majority of abortions. If I hadn’t slowed down and asked Landon questions, I could have missed what he was trying to communicate.

Second, many people are unaware of the abortion laws in their own state. There is also a lot of apathy and ignorance surrounding what abortion is and what it does to another human being. When we have conversations about these things we have the opportunity to inform people and help move their hearts toward loving forgotten human beings, especially the unborn.

Third, many people are understandably uncomfortable talking about abortion. They are afraid of being verbally attacked, yelled at, and ridiculed. I understand that fear because I’ve had those experiences, and it affected the way I felt going into some future conversations. I’ve learned that acting against my fear and discomfort is necessary and something I’m called to do as a Christian. God meets us in those places of fear, and He empowers us to engage in the midst of difficult situations. By treating people with kindness and gentleness, we can invite others to engage in the conversation in spite of their fears.

In my experience, most conversations about abortion are not hostile. When people see that I want to have a civil conversation about an important issue, they are open to engaging in a respectful way. I think we can give people a gift on multiple levels. We can give them a good experience in a conversation about a difficult topic by asking questions, listening, and truly understanding them. Then we can help them get closer to the truth by challenging them to stop tolerating the killing of innocent children in the womb.

Human Fetuses Are Not Parasites

Free Speech Board comment at the University of Kansas.

“The fetus is just a parasite.” Some pro-choice advocates make this claim, and they can mean very different things by referring to unborn children as “parasites”. A student at Kansas University wrote the following:

The women’s rights should take precedence over the rights of a parasite (technical definition of a fetus in the 1st trimester) because she is already an existing human who has every right to decline to birth something that she might not be able to take care of, or would be psychologically traumatic to raise or give up. NOT YOUR BODY, NOT YOUR CHOICE.

Let’s break down some aspects of this comment:

“The women’s rights should take precedence over the rights of a parasite (technical definition of a fetus in the 1st trimester)…” If after asking clarification questions you find that the person is using the parasite language in a biological sense, it’s important to point out that fetuses do not fit the scientific criteria for parasitism. JFA Trainer Rebekah Dyer notes this in her article Human Fetuses are Not Parasites:

fetuses do “not match the biological definition of a parasite. 'Biologically defined, parasitism is a “form of symbiosis in which one organism (called a parasite) benefits at the expense of another organism usually of different species (called a host). This host-parasite association may eventuate to the injury of the host.' In order to understand the relationship between mother and fetus, we need to look at the various types of symbiosis. There are three kinds of symbiosis: commensalism, mutualism and parasitism. In commensalism, only one species benefits while the other is neither harmed nor benefited. In mutualism, both partners benefit. In parasitism, one organism benefits while the other suffers harm."

The parasite claim is often complex and the person using the term can mean different things by it. Sometimes the person doesn’t mean it in a biological sense at all. Rebekah Dyer’s second article on the parasite term goes more into depth on this aspect of the “parasite” claim some pro-choice advocates make, and she provides insight on how to navigate that in conversation.

Note that the writer of this comment states that the woman is “already an existing human” implying the additional phrase, “unlike the unborn who is not an existing human yet.” But this is merely an assumption. It begs the central question “What is the unborn?” Then the comment concludes with a bodily rights statement at the end.

To learn how to respond to comments like these, sign up for our Love3 Workshops.

"Hey You! You're a Gender Traitor!"

In a conversation at Cal State San Marcos in October

I was in the middle of a conversation at Texas State University awhile ago, and a woman singled me out and yelled, “Hey you! You’re a gender traitor!” She proceeded to swear at me as she walked by. While this wasn’t a pleasant experience, when it came to mind recently I thought of Proverbs 20:5 which says, “The purpose in a man’s heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.”

Sometimes our lives intersect with other people at times when they are deeply suffering and struggling. When we bring up difficult topics they may react in very negative ways. I’m not saying that’s what was going on with this woman. I didn’t get to talk to her, so I don’t know. There are some people who just want to deride and attack those with whom they disagree, and it’s not a great use of our time to try to engage them. But that is not the norm. I think we should give people the benefit of the doubt in these situations. We all have bad moments, and being on the receiving end of someone else’s bad moment gives us an opportunity to extend God’s grace to them.

I was at the University of Northern Colorado in September, and I asked a woman who was signing our poll if she wanted to share her thoughts about abortion. She put the pen down, looked at me, and in some colorful language basically said she didn’t care what other people thought so she would be happy to talk. I remember hoping the interaction would end quickly because I assumed it wasn’t going to go well. But I was wrong. It ended up being my best conversation that week, and I got to tell her about Jesus!

Proverbs 19:11 tells us that it is our “glory to overlook an offense.” I have found that if I don’t react to mean or dismissive comments, and I genuinely try to understand the people in front of me, I have a better chance to get to know them, their story, and why they believe what they do. Oftentimes this gives me the opportunity to challenge their false beliefs more effectively and point them to the truth.

Give people second chances. Third chances. Even fourth chances. Don’t give up on them too quickly. What is going on inside of people is like that deep well we read about in Proverbs 20:5. We are not going to get to the bottom quickly. Many people are angry, hurt, confused, and lost. That may make for some rough beginnings to our conversations, but that’s okay.

I am entering my fifth year with Justice For All, and I’m so thankful for your financial support and prayers that make my work possible. In Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis says, “If there were no help from Christ, there would be no help from other human beings.” God works through you and me to help the people He puts in my path, whether I’m talking to students on campus, sidewalk counseling at the abortion clinic, teaching at our workshops, or meeting with local ministry leaders to plan events. I’m grateful for all of the opportunities I have to help others as they wrestle with questions surrounding why human beings, born and unborn, should be protected and loved. Thank you for investing in me. I couldn’t do this without you.

The Pain that Lies Beneath

In one sense, conversations about abortion are really simple. Abortion kills an innocent human being, and that shouldn’t be legal.

Psychologically and emotionally though, this issue is incredibly complicated. People’s stories and their experiences influence how they view and understand simple ideas. When deep pain and trauma are influencing their views, those simple ideas can become complicated.

I talked to “Emily” at Fullerton College in January. My colleague Jon Wagner shared with me afterward that she had signed our free speech board and had written something about abortion being an issue of women’s bodily rights. He said she was visibly agitated and shaking.

From the free speech board, she went to our poll table where I asked her if she wanted to share her thoughts. She quickly told me that our display was disturbing to her. She didn’t like it and said the pictures of embryology were “harmful.” She told me our outreach on campus was “part of the problem” and didn’t do justice to what is going on with this issue. While I did not agree that our display was “harmful,” the things she shared throughout our conversation helped me begin to understand why she felt the way she did.

When I started asking her questions, she told me that she had a friend who was raped and became pregnant. Her friend decided to keep the baby, but she committed suicide shortly after giving birth. She was only thirteen. (Her baby is now five years old.)

She also shared with me that she has a friend who was addicted to meth when he was born due to the choices of the mother. She told me that this friend doesn’t like her life and that she doesn’t want to live anymore. In addition to this, Emily told me that she has a condition where if she got pregnant, she could either keep taking her medication and her baby would be severely deformed or she could stop taking her medicine, the baby would be fine, but she would die after giving birth.

At some point in our conversation, she also shared with me that she was a Christian and thought that abortion was murder in the third trimester. Earlier in pregnancy though, she said that we cannot have laws against abortion, because there are too many circumstances that the law can’t take into account.

Pain and tragedy deeply affect people. The suffering in their pasts can warp their perspectives on issues that are morally clear. Those clear issues become unclear to them when they look at them through the lens of the shattered lives of themselves or their friends. Knowing this can help us understand why good and clear arguments appear to make no headway with some people. I know it can be frustrating when we lay out a clear case for something we believe to be true and are only met with statements that seem to show the other person is “not getting it.”

In a conversation at Fullerton in January 2023.

I think taking a step back and really engaging with the pain people experience can help us be empathetic and compassionate while we speak up for the rights of unborn human beings in this country.

Towards the end of our conversation, Emily told me that while she loves the five-year-old child her friend chose to have after she was raped, she wishes she could have her friend back instead. In Emily’s mind, if her friend had chosen abortion, she would still be here. The abortion would have “saved” her life. As odd as that may sound to us, I think that kind of statement points us to something important.

Sometimes it can feel like we just need the right argument or the right response to refute wrong beliefs. I think knowing good arguments is incredibly important because they do impact people’s views and their behavior. But sometimes, arguments aren’t going to do what we want them to do with someone who is still grieving the loss of her friend. It’s a matter of triage. When someone is bleeding out, has a sprained ankle, a broken arm, and some minor cuts, we have to assess which injury is most urgent and focus on it first. All of them are important, but we can’t focus on all of them at once.

Given the length of my conversation with Emily, I did end up making the case for why abortion is not a good solution to the tragic circumstances she talked about. No matter how great our pain is, it doesn’t give us the right to kill another human being. In these kinds of conversations, I don’t always present arguments. It’s not because I don’t care about making good arguments for why unborn children should be protected legally. It’s because sometimes given the time I have, I decide that making an argument is not the best thing to do at that moment. I trust that God will bring someone else in her life later when she is more willing and ready to hear arguments that challenge her beliefs.

I think it’s a judgment call we all need to make at times. Do I make an argument and address her incorrect beliefs now? Do I just listen and empathize with her? Do I do both? I believe we can trust that God will guide us as we make these decisions in our conversations.

Even in the midst of darkness, great evil, and tragedy, life is worth living and protecting because we serve Jesus, God in human flesh, who rose out of his own tomb victorious over death and evil. Even though this is true, there are so many people who do not feel like life is worth living, and that chasm is something we have the privilege of helping close. In this valley of tears, may we be willing to enter into uncomfortable and difficult conversations with others so that we can bridge this gap together.

A Changed Heart at Fort Lewis

July 2023 Impact Report

At Justice For All (JFA), we’re passionate about changing hearts and minds about abortion. We want to see thousands of Christians trained each year to do the work in their local communities of speaking up for those who can’t speak for themselves (Prov. 31:8). Even more importantly, though, we see ourselves as ambassadors for Christ, and we look for opportunities to encourage every person we encounter to be reconciled to God (II Cor. 5:20). We want to represent Christ in such a way that each person comes closer to giving his or her life to Christ. In this Impact Report, Rebekah Dyer shares about how God gave her the gift of seeing both a shift in belief about abortion and a new commitment to Christ in the span of an hour. Thank God with us! -Steve Wagner, Executive Director

Rebekah talks to Josh next to the kiosk at Fort Lewis College in April 2023.

I saw “Josh” looking at our kiosk. He started to put his headphones back on and walk away when I approached him and greeted him. I asked him what he thought about abortion, and we walked back over to the kiosk he had been looking at. He started out by telling me that as a man his opinion didn’t really matter even though he was personally opposed to abortion. 

I encouraged him that his opinion is important and equal to mine as a woman since the whole issue of abortion centers around the equal rights of human beings. Women don’t have more of a voice when it comes to child abuse even though they are the ones who give birth to the child. We all have an obligation to stand against that injustice since it harms a human being. It’s the same with abortion.

As we continued talking, I asked him when he believes human beings begin to have rights. I shared the equal rights argument and explained why unborn children should be protected from violence from the moment of fertilization.

I also asked him if he had ever seen pictures of what abortion looks like. He said no, so I asked him if he would be open to viewing some. He said yes, so I opened the Invitation to Dialogue Brochure and showed him images of a first trimester abortion. He was shocked and dismayed by what abortion does to another human being.

As our conversation about abortion was starting to wind down, Josh told me that I had opened his mind to new possibilities and said he appreciated the conversation because it was civil and comfortable. 

Austin and Rebekah pray with Josh at the end of the conversation.

Austin, a local campus ministry leader, came up and joined our conversation at this point. After I introduced Austin, he quickly and naturally began asking Josh about his spiritual beliefs. In response to the direction the conversation was going, Josh asked us, “How does one get into heaven?” 

“I’m so glad you asked.” Austin said. He walked Josh through a gospel tract that went over our sin, our need for a savior, and the salvation that Jesus offers. Part of the tract asks questions about who is on the throne of your life: you or Jesus? Austin asked, “Who do you want on the throne of your life?” Josh said, “Jesus.” It was so encouraging to see God working in his heart! At this point, Austin read him a prayer at the end of the tract and asked if that prayer expressed the desire of his heart. He said it did. So Austin asked him if he wanted to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior right then. Josh said, “Why not?” We all bowed our heads and Josh prayed for Jesus to save him and transform his life.

“JFA partnered with Master Plan Ministries to produce our Fort Lewis College outreach events in 2019, 2022, and 2023. Austin Krokos (right) is one of the Master Plan missionaries who was instrumental in making these events happen. Austin is a passionate advocate for the lives of the unborn, and he’s also passionate about helping people know Jesus. Partnering with Austin and Master Plan is a huge encouragement for us. Before we come, they help students reserve campus space and convince local churches to host our seminar. After we leave, they follow up with people reached through the event and continue to seek to change hearts and minds the rest of the year. That’s why we aim for the same sort of partnership with communities of Christians in every place that we work. It was a special joy to hear about Rebekah and Austin’s interaction with Josh, featured in this Impact Report. It gave us a glimpse of how we’re helping local Christians like Austin and his colleagues reach their campuses for Christ.” - Steve Wagner

We then prayed for Josh and introduced him to some other local ministry leaders who got his contact information so they could connect further. Austin also wrote in a Bible and gave it to Josh. As we closed out that outreach day, Josh helped us carry a lot of our equipment to the van before we left.

Since then, Josh has attended a Bible study with the local campus ministry and has met with the leader to talk one-on-one about his new found faith in Jesus. I’ve been told he has been like a sponge. He wants to learn everything he can about the Bible.  He told his uncle that he had become a Christian, and his uncle put him down verbally and asked why he would join a “white man’s religion”? Josh defended his faith and shared Revelation 7:9, which tells us that in Heaven there will be people from every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Talking about abortion opens up natural opportunities to share the gospel. Abortion is wrong because human beings matter so much. But we only truly matter if there is a loving God who created us with dignity and purpose. As I talk with students across the country, I see a deep hunger to know God in many of them. At Adams State University two days later, I was able tell two other young men about Jesus and connect them to the campus ministry leaders there.

Please join me in praying for Josh and the other students that were so open to the gospel. “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.  Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” Luke 10:2 (ESV)

"You Changed My Mind in a Way"

At Palomar College in December, I talked to a young woman named “Emma” who told me abortion should be legal up until 12 weeks of pregnancy. I asked her questions to gather more information about her view, and we started talking about whether the unborn are human beings. I shared some evidence from the field of biology with her and explained why I believe the unborn are human beings from fertilization. I then explained that we have to be incredibly careful when we draw a line as to when human beings begin to get their rights. If we draw that line incorrectly, we end up excluding certain human beings from being equally protected from violence.

Rebekah (far right) in conversation at Palomar College in San Marcos, CA, December 2022

I presented the Equal Rights Argument to her, which is a helpful tool we teach in our seminars and our online Love3 workshops. I began this way: If we believe in equal treatment, there has to be something the same about all of us to ground our equal rights. So what is the same about all of us that gives us an equal right to be protected from violence?

During my conversation with Emma, I made the case that our human nature is the thing that is the same about all of us that is the foundation for our equal rights. Since that’s the case, we need to include the unborn in the equal rights community because they have a human nature. If we pick some other foundation like rationality or the ability to feel pain, we’ll end up including animals in the equal rights community or excluding infants.

After I explained my view in this way and showed her some images of abortion in the first trimester, she said, “You changed my mind in a way.”

I was really encouraged to hear Emma acknowledge some change in her view. Usually people need time to process the conversation and re-evaluate their perspective and that can take days, months, or maybe even years. Even when I don’t see change or know the immediate impact of my conversations, I’m thankful I can depend on the Lord who calls all of us to trust in him and continue to do good. (Psalm 37:3)

Deeper Questions

Most of my conversations on campus tend to focus specifically on abortion, the rights of unborn human beings, and how we can balance those rights with protecting and respecting a woman’s right to her body.

Rebekah speaks to a student at Texas State University in October 2022

In the midst of discussing these topics, there is often a natural segue to discuss the deeper worldview questions of why humans matter all and whether we can really know if anything is morally right or wrong. I talked to a young man I’ll call “Ethan” at Wichita State University in September, and our conversation quickly turned to these deeper questions.

He told me early in the conversation that even if abortion is killing a human being, it wouldn’t matter. I sensed this statement was coming from a complicated and maybe even painful place within him so I asked him if he thought human beings in general mattered. I asked him if he thought his life mattered. I speak with many people on campus who don’t think their life matters. If they cannot understand their own worth and value, it’s going to be even more difficult to help them understand the value and dignity of another human being they cannot see.

Ethan and I found a place to sit down, and we began talking about how we can know what is right and wrong. We discussed moral relativism, the existence of God, why humans matter, and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

He shared with me that he was gay, had many bad experiences in the church, and was bullied a lot in school. As we talked, I was able to tell him that his life does matter, and I was able to encourage him to read the gospels and get to know Jesus, the only one who can heal all our brokenness and set us free from our sin. A couple of hours later, Ethan came back as we were getting ready to leave campus, and he wanted to know if I had anything else I had wanted to share. So we sat down again, and I encouraged him a second time to seek Jesus and read His word.

Rebekah had a similar conversation with this young man Texas State University in October 2022

When Ethan came back, it reminded me of how deep the desire is in the human spirit to truly understand why we are here. Human beings matter and should be equally protected from violence and harm because they have intrinsic worth given from the Creator. Abortion is such a monumental issue in our country and around the world because people have forsaken God. They have rejected his call on their lives, and how they ought to love and treat others. When they live according to their own rules, human beings suffer. Violence and injustice become defended virtues.

When Jesus healed a demon-possessed man from the Gerasenes, he told the man to go back to his hometown and tell them how much God had done for him. (Luke 8:39) Our freedom in Christ and the healing we have received from Jesus is meant to be shared. May we always be willing and ready to go and tell people how much God has done for us.

To Christians Upset About Roe's Reversal

There have been claims made by some in the Christian community that Roe being overturned is a distraction from the real issues at hand. There have been Christians lamenting the reversal. It’s been said that focusing on laws and overturning court cases is not the answer to reducing or eliminating abortion. A host of other social issues are presented with the claim that caring for human beings means we need to focus on basically every other issue except making laws that protect unborn children from violence. Hearing this come from people who call themselves Christians is disheartening. 

Of course there are many other issues to care about. Of course women and their circumstances matter and merit our attention and concern. Pro-life advocates’ concerns are not just about making abortion illegal, though that is a crucial part of this issue. We understand there are other issues to solve. But working to protect innocent human beings from violence is not a distraction. It is a very worthy thing to focus on. 

Go to Human Defense Initiative to read the full article.

An Abortion Conversation in a Jacuzzi?

“I was not planning on talking about abortion. It was Labor Day weekend, and I was at the house of my brother’s boss, “Jim.” I had been trying to set up a meeting with him for awhile to discuss the possibility of financially supporting my work with Justice For All. I knew he was more on the pro-choice side but also knew he was really open to speaking with me. I had prepared notes for this particular conversation, and I had been planning on reviewing them prior to discussing my work. I thought we would meet at a coffee shop at some point. This is the story about how my plan for preparation quickly went out the door and how God made something special out of it.”

I had the opportunity to work through abortion in the case of rape and also talk about the Equal Rights Argument. Click here to read how the whole conversation went.

Are you a man and intimidated by conversations about abortion? - Resource List

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• “A Gracious and Courageous Response” - How to Help a Person Who Says, “You’re a Man, So Your Opinion Doesn’t Count.” (Jon Wagner, Justice For All)

  Links mentioned in Jon’s post (above):

  • ”Responding to the Astute Observation That I Am a Man” (Timothy Brahm, Equal Rights Institute)

  • Testimony from abortion survivor, Gianna Jessen - House Judiciary Committee hearing (9/9/15)

• “A Woman’s Response to ‘Men Can’t Talk about Abortion’” (Rebekah Dyer, Human Defense Initiative)

Aubree Changes Her Mind

Above, I talk with “Aubree” at UT Dallas in early March, before COVID-19 cancellations.

On February 7th, I began serving as a Spring 2020 Intern with Justice For All. Before COVID-19 forced us to cancel the events JFA had planned for later in the spring, I was able to travel to Texas three times for outreach events at the University of North Texas, Trinity University, University of Texas at San Antonio, and University of Texas at Dallas.

One of the most memorable interactions I had this spring was at UT Dallas. A young woman I’ll call “Aubree” came up to our poll table that asked, “Should Abortion Remain Legal?” As she signed the Yes side, I approached her and asked her what she thought about abortion. Aubree proceeded to tell me she didn’t like abortion, but she thought it should be legal because making a law against abortion would cause more women to get hurt. She expressed the concern that even if we made abortion illegal, women would die in back-alley abortions, and it wouldn’t really prevent abortion at all. She went on to explain she also believes life begins at conception and that abortion kills an innocent human being.

There are many people like Aubree who claim to be pro-life, believe the unborn is human like you and me, and yet believe that abortion should be legal. The problem with this is multi-faceted. First, they are telling you abortion is killing an innocent human but that abortion should still be legal. Then they often support this with a second statement like the back-alley abortion claim.

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Above, I am shown talking with a pro-choice student at Trinity University in February.

The challenge in this view is that to some extent there is truth to it. Having a law against abortion won’t stop all abortions. Laws do not prevent all people from engaging in a particular action, but that does not mean we should not have legislation against a particular act if it is harming or killing another person.

I began to walk through her concerns with her, and we applied her reasoning for keeping abortion legal to other issues. Laws against child abuse and rape do not prevent all those crimes from occurring, but they do mitigate the behavior. In addition, laws reflect what our society values. If we did not have laws against child abuse and rape, that would reveal a disturbing culture that does not have concern for the wellbeing of vulnerable people victimized by these evil acts. In the same way, if abortion is killing an innocent human being (which it is), then we should have laws against it.

Another helpful way to process this is to imagine we were talking about women having the right to kill their newborns. Imagine that someone argues that infanticide should be legal and safe for women because if it were illegal, women would just get hurt in back alleys trying to kill their newborns. This helps to clarify the point and keep the discussion on one central question: What is the unborn?

Of course we don’t want women to die in “back-alley abortions,” and we should take measures to help women not desire to take that risk. But because abortion is killing an innocent human being, it should not remain legal.

Towards the end of my conversation with Aubree, we began discussing women’s rights, and I remarked how I thought it was sad that the idea of women’s rights is so interconnected with abortion. “Oftentimes, abortion kills another woman [at the embryonic or fetal stage]. Our ability to be free and equal does not come from our ability to kill other weaker, vulnerable, unborn women. If we really care about women, why do we not fight for all women in all stages of their existence? It seems odd to me that we only fight for a specific group of women, and we tell some of them that they have the right to kill another woman if she gets in their way.”

“When I made that connection it was like a light bulb went on in her mind. Before leaving, she asked “Can I change my answer?””

When I made that connection it was like a light bulb went on in her mind. Before leaving, she asked “Can I change my answer?” Walking back to the poll table, she signed the No side of our poll, and we cordially parted ways.

Many people think the same way Aubree thought before our conversation, and they just need someone to gently point out the flawed reasoning in their beliefs. When the truth is communicated in a loving manner, sometimes they are willing to change their views to fit the truth. This is encouraging to witness.

As Christians, learning how to communicate the truth to a watching world is crucial. We are told to “walk in wisdom towards outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.” (Col. 4:5-6 ESV). May we all be willing and ready to communicate the truth to a lost world.

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A Note to My Support Team

(Originally shared along with this story in April 2020)

Dear Friends,

Since traveling is no longer an option this spring, I have been working with the JFA team as we seek to reach people using other means. I have been helping JFA launch its Instagram account (@picturejusticeforall) while trying to get into conversations via direct message with people on that forum. I presented a portion of an online JFA interactive workshop this past week, and I’ll also be helping with online training events in the coming weeks (see www.jfaweb.org/calendar). In addition, please go to my JFA page to find links to articles I have published recently with Human Defense Initiative and Merely Human Ministries.

We continue to engage in compassionate dialogue with the purpose of glorifying God and communicating to people the value and dignity in every human life. Thank you for your friendship, support, and prayers. It is much easier to do this work knowing I have people like you who have my back.

In Christ,

Rebekah Dyer