Tammy Cook reflects on 28 years with JFA.
Illuminations
Two Buckets, Take 2
In our team debriefs recently, a number of our younger staff members have been remarking about a tool they picked up from Tammy Cook, who has been working at JFA since 1996. Tammy originally described her “Two Buckets” analogy in our September 2017 Impact Report (I encourage you to go back and read that story above). This Impact Report features a second “Two Buckets” installment from Tammy. She details a conversation that happened at Wichita State University in August, along with a summary of the impact of all of her conversations at that outreach event. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director
Impact Report, April 2022
By Tammy Cook, JFA Training Specialist
Tammy interacts with a student at Wichita State University in August 2021.
What a privilege it was to be back on the Wichita State University (WSU) campus on August 30 and 31 with the JFA team! I was excited to once again dialogue with college students face to face after a 17-month wait. I was ready to meet the challenge of helping them think through their views on abortion, and I prayed to see hearts and minds changed.
I introduced my Two Buckets analogy in 2017. It continues to be a very useful approach with pro-choice students that say, “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but I can’t tell others what to do.” I’m thrilled to share the impact that this analogy had on a WSU student named James.
James didn’t identify as pro-life or pro-choice. He said, “I’m in the middle.” I asked several questions to help him think through his views. I discovered that he believed that we become human at fertilization and that the unborn are human like us. He also agreed that the unborn deserved to be treated equally to born people and should be protected.
I then asked, “If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?” He thought long and hard and said, “I can still see both sides of the issue. I believe strongly in freedom of choice. I just don’t think I can take someone else’s rights away.” I shared my Two Buckets story to help him dig deeper into his thinking.
Tammy: Imagine that I have two buckets. The first bucket contains choices like murder, rape, stealing, and molestation. Do you agree that these choices are wrong and should not be legal?
James: Yes.
Tammy: The second bucket contains personal choices—for example, a favorite food like strawberries, choosing to go to college or not, dying your hair blue, etc. Do you agree that everyone should have the freedom to make these personal choices that do not harm others?
James: Yes.
Tammy: The significant difference between each of the two buckets is that one contains choices that harm people and the other bucket contains choices that do not harm people.
Two Buckets (Illustration by Joanna Bai)
James: That makes a lot of sense. Many people think pro-life people want to take rights away, but I can see now that you’re actually wanting to add rights to people— to let them have plenty of rights as long as it doesn’t harm another human being...
I smiled and nodded in agreement.
James: What about rape? That’s a really tough situation.
Tammy: I agree.
I spent some time empathizing with women who’ve been raped and stated that we should punish rapists more fully. He agreed, and I continued:
Tammy: There are most likely students walking on this campus that were conceived from rape. Do you think they are any less valuable than those students who were not conceived in rape?
James: No.
I could see that this was a lightbulb moment for him.
Tammy: So, in which bucket does abortion belong?
James: [after a short pause] Abortion belongs in the bucket with murder.
I again nodded in agreement. We smiled at each other. Then I returned to my earlier question:
Tammy: If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?
James: I’d definitely vote no!
This was such a great moment. I paused to thank God for using me as an instrument to help James have a change of heart so significant that he is now willing even to vote to protect the unborn.
Summary of My WSU Event Conversations
Tammy Cook
I saw God working in the hearts of many people. I had conversations with ten students over the course of two days at WSU (see one in the photo above). Here’s how I would categorize the students after asking a few questions to assess their views:
BEFORE: Undecided: 2 Pro-Choice: 5 Pro-Life: 3
I saw a complete shift in thinking by the end of the conversations with the two undecided students and two of the pro-choice students. All four said they would vote to make abortion illegal. I used the Two Buckets analogy in most of these conversations, and I believe it was integral in helping several of them, if not all, rethink their views.
AFTER: Undecided: 0 Pro-Choice: 3 Pro-Life: 7
Note: This story was originally published in Tammy Cook’s September 2021 newsletter. You can read and share both this and the first “Two Buckets” story using the following webpage: www.jfaweb.org/two-buckets.
A Big Change for Chase
Tammy (left) and Rose (in red) talk with Chase at WSU in September 2021.
What a wonderful fall semester! It has been such a joy to be back on campus and having in-person conversations with students. I participated in JFA events in Kansas, Colorado, and Oklahoma. At a small campus outreach event at Wichita State University (WSU) in September, I had a memorable conversation with a student that lasted nearly an hour. I think you’ll be delighted at the outcome.
I was standing with Rose, JFA intern, in front of our Should Abortion Remain Legal poll sign. We met a student named Chase. He didn’t sign our poll, but instead asked our opinion. So I briefly explained our pro-life view. He said that he would vote yes because people are going to do it anyway and we should keep it safe. I asked if he was pro-choice, and he said yes.
Seeking to find common ground I asked, “Should it be legal when done for sex selection? As a form of birth control? During the late term?” He didn’t think it should be legal for any of those reasons. I remarked that there’s a lot on which we agree. He smiled and shook his head affirmatively.
“Invitation to Dialogue” Brochure, pp. 4-5 (Get your own copy here.)
I began explaining the JFA “Invitation to Dialogue” Brochure. I gave a summary of basic human reproduction and biology on the pages depicting stages of human life, before and after birth. He agreed that the unborn is a developing human at fertilization, but it needs a heartbeat to be a human being.
I agreed there is no heartbeat during the first three weeks. I explained that the unborn is a developing human organism, and there’s no injection of essential genetic material after fertilization. The unborn only needs one thing to continue its development—nutrition. And that’s all that we need to move through the stages of human life, from birth to toddler, to teenager, to young adult, etc. We are the same whole human organism at fertilization as we are right now. He agreed that that made sense.
After a short pause, he said, “If that’s all true, then abortion might be wrong depending on the circumstance.” Wow, progress!
I was enjoying this conversation with Chase, not because he was agreeing with everything that I was asking or saying (he wasn’t), but because we built a rapport rather quickly. He pushed back often, which I fully expected from someone that says he is pro-choice. It was exciting to be on a journey engaging with someone who is open-minded and using critical thinking skills. Chase found it surprising, for example, when I noted that about 95% of abortions are for reasons other than rape, life of the mother, and incest.
My next step was using the Equal Rights Argument. I asked what is the same about us—what gives us our equality? He said that the ability to think is what gives us our equality. I asked him to consider a scenario. If the three of us took the same physics test, how would each of us do? I said that I probably wouldn’t do very well. Rose said she wouldn’t do well either, but Chase said that he would do well. I responded, “Since it’s obvious that we have different levels of the ability to think, then our ability to think can’t be the ‘thing’ that gives us our equality because we don’t all think equally, right? Doesn’t our equality have to be based on something that we all have equally?” He shook his head yes and I sensed this was a lightbulb moment. I continued, “I believe that our humanness is what’s the same about all of us—that’s what gives us our equality. And since the unborn are human like us, don’t they deserve to be treated equally to us?” He nodded in agreement. More progress.
Since Chase had referenced personal freedoms several times, I knew that was an important topic to him. So I shared my Two Buckets analogy. At the end of my story, I asked, “In which bucket does abortion belong? Does it belong in the one with personal preferences or the one with things like murder and stealing?” He thought for a minute and said, “I’m against 95% of abortions. That 95% belongs in the bucket with murder. I can now see that abortion is wrong. But abortion needs to be legal for the other 5%.” Praise God! Now I’m going after that remaining 5%!
I agreed that rape, incest, and life of the mother are very tough situations. I addressed each circumstance and expressed concern for those women. I commended Chase for his compassion. After I felt that I had adequately communicated my compassion, I attempted to bring the conversation back to the point of agreement that the unborn is human. I “trotted out a toddler.” I said, “Imagine a woman with a two-year-old who was conceived in rape. Would you agree that she can’t kill her child even though she can’t deal with the deep emotional pain she feels every time she looks at her child?” He agreed. We discussed it further and agreed that even though the topic of rape is very difficult, that since the unborn is human like the two-year-old, then we can’t kill the unborn in the same way that we can’t kill the two-year-old. They are both valuable human beings.
I added a few more facts. I told him that many people don’t know there are a lot of resources available at thousands of Pregnancy Resource Centers. I said there are about 2,500 abortions every day and I believe there are plenty of resources to help every one of those women.
He said, “Okay, you convinced me! I’m against abortion 100%!” We looked at each other with big smiles and high-fived! Then he signed “No” on our Should Abortion Remain Legal poll. Praise God!
For help learning and using the tools that I employed in my conversation with Chase, here’s a special list of links just for you:
Trot Out the Toddler (Collection of Newsletters by JFA Trainers)
Equal Rights Argument (Collection of Newsletters by JFA Trainers)
Thank you for your prayers and for your continued support. I’m experiencing a shortfall in my support right now. Would you consider giving a special year-end gift to help? Thank you! May God bless you.
In Christ,
Tammy Cook
My Aha Moment!
Dear Friends,
I hope this finds you well. The past six weeks have brought about a myriad of changes for most of us. It’s been quite an emotional roller coaster, but I am doing okay. Just striving to trust God. I’ve been praying for you.
I was filled with sadness in March due to the cancellation of the remainder of JFA’s training events this semester. It was a tough pill to swallow since I love doing outreach events! My fellow trainers and I have spent the last month working on several projects that will benefit our Training Program. We are now offering online events! Go to the JFA calendar for dates and details.
The last JFA outreach event this semester was held in March at the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD). I had great conversations that resulted in many pro-choice advocates rethinking their views. It was my last conversation, however, that was the most memorable. Here’s that story:
“Harper” was part of an active group of protesters that had grown to about 25 people on day three. I felt drawn to talk to him, but I was fearful. Would I encounter openness or hostility? The Holy Spirit lifted my fear and filled me with courage.
I introduced myself and expressed a desire to learn about his view. He voiced heartfelt concern for women not ready for pregnancy. He doesn’t believe in forcing women to carry to term, especially in cases of rape and health risks. I agreed those are tough situations, commended his compassion, and discussed it further.
I sat and listened to his concerns such as taking away choices from women and caring about children who are unloved in foster care. We discussed the humanity of the unborn and equality of all human beings. I found common ground including agreement that third trimester abortions should be illegal. It was heartbreaking to hear him speak of losing his mom, and of the racism he’s experienced as a Muslim in the U.S. He was genuinely interested in hearing a different perspective on abortion.
Then the conversation took an unexpected turn. Harper said to me, “I think I can trust you with this information. My girlfriend was raped and had an abortion two years ago.” My heart sank, and I could see the pain in his eyes and hear it in his voice. I asked how she’s doing. He said she’s having a really rough time, and he has felt helpless the past two years. She is going through counseling which has been beneficial for her. I expressed my sorrow and just listened.
Then I had an aha moment! His view on abortion was being influenced by his girlfriend’s pain. Because of my willingness to invest time listening and sharing genuine compassion, Harper finally let his guard down. And now I knew where to go next.
I commended his desire to alleviate suffering. I agreed that life is hard and that it’s not a matter of if we will face tough life challenges, but when! We should take advantage of learning from each challenge, instead of trying to escape from it. I revisited our earlier discussion of God and faith. Here’s a portion of what I said:
I tried handling some of my toughest trials on my own, but I failed miserably. Laying my problems at God’s feet and asking for help had the opposite result. I’m not implying that my problems were solved immediately, but I was better equipped to endure the bumpy road. A cancer diagnosis was one of the best things to ever happen to me. I had nowhere to go but to God, and He drew me close to Him in a way I’d never experienced. It could have been a very dark time, but instead, I felt so much peace. That life-changing event prepared me for future challenges including a severe health issue that nearly took my life two years ago. A woman who perseveres through an unwanted pregnancy can learn exponential life lessons that no money can buy. She can inspire the world. God has no limits.
Harper was pro-choice at the start of this conversation and believed a woman should have a right to an abortion for any reason at any time. At the end he believed abortion should only be allowed for cases of rape, incest, and health of the mother in the first trimester only. At the end he was opposed to the majority of abortions, which was a huge change. Harper said,
“Thanks for having this conversation. It’s been really good and refreshing, and I’ve really enjoyed it. You have a lot of great knowledge that’s been helpful to me. It’s good to learn what “pro-life” really means. I believe your group has every right to be here [remember, he was a protester], and I appreciate the way you’re attempting to dialogue with students. I think that’s healthy.” As he started to walk away, I told him that I would be thinking of him and his girlfriend, praying for them, and that I hope she starts feeling better soon. He said, “Thank you. I really appreciate that. I really do.”
Good, solid pro-life arguments are crucial in a dialogue with a pro-choice advocate, but they must always be combined with patience, listening, compassion, asking questions, and finding common ground. These qualities help us to love all three— the woman, the child, and those who disagree—equally. Then we can look for an opportunity to share the reason for our hope. I believe that God was the one that softened Harper’s heart and helped him move away from his hardcore pro-choice beliefs.
In Christ,
Tammy Cook
Two Buckets
Impact Report, September 2017
Tammy Cook, JFA Training Specialist
In this Impact Report, JFA dialogue artist and trainer Tammy Cook shares an approach to conversation that she’s found to be very helpful for people who are pro-choice because they are reluctant to tell others what to do. Her “two buckets” concept helped Dixon think differently about abortion, even though seeing abortion as a harm had already been covered in the conversation once. That’s one of the valuable lessons here: Many times, people need multiple passes at a concept from different angles in order to “see” the truth. In the conversation, you’ll also see Tammy modeling other conversational approaches we teach in our seminar, including trotting out a toddler, asking questions with an open heart, and using visual aids. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director
The Lory Student Center Plaza was buzzing with students on a crisp morning in April. It was the first of three days in which Justice For All displayed the Stop and Think Exhibit at Colorado State University. Hundreds of students glanced up at the 12-foot display as they rushed to class. A student named “Dixon” stopped to ask a question.
Dixon: What is this all about?
Tammy: We are an organization named Justice For All. We were invited by the Students for Life club to discuss the topic of abortion with CSU students. We want to ask students what they think and then have a healthy and respectful dialogue. What do you think?
JFA volunteer Bryan (above, second from right) talks with a student while Tammy (above, seated center) and another volunteer talk with Dixon.
Dixon: I don’t think I have a say. I don’t think we can tell other people what to do.
Tammy: Thank you for sharing. May I ask you a few questions to better understand your view?
Dixon: Sure.
Tammy: It sounds like it’s important to you to not tell others what they can or can’t do. Do you mind sharing with me why that’s important to you?
Dixon: Well, I don’t like people telling me what to do, and I think most people feel that way.
Tammy: I agree with you – I think most people are sensitive to being told what they can or can’t do.
Tammy talks with Dixon while using the JFA Exhibit Brochure as a visual aid. To see more photos from JFA's April 2017 outreach event at Colorado State University, visit the gallery page.
Dixon: [nodding head] Right.
Tammy: Let me give you a scenario and ask what you think about it. Imagine that a woman has a two-year-old son, and she’s having a really tough life. She can’t afford to feed or take care of her son. This might seem like an odd question, but bear with me: “Should she be allowed to kill her two-year-old son, if that’s what she wants to do?”
Dixon: No, absolutely not.
Tammy: I agree. Why can’t she kill him?
Dixon: Because he’s a child.
Tammy: Right. Would you agree that he’s a human being like the mother?
Dixon: Yes.
Tammy: So if the unborn child is a human being like the two-year-old, then wouldn’t it be just as wrong to kill the unborn child through abortion as it would for the mother to kill her two-year-old?
Dixon: I’ve never thought about it that way. I guess that could change things. [He paused.] But I still don’t think we can tell others what they can or can’t do. Each person should have the freedom to make his own choices.
Is abortion merely a personal preference, or is it a choice that harms? (“Two Buckets” Illustration by Joanna Bai)
Tammy: I agree with you that freedom is important. Maybe it would help to break down our types of choices into two categories. Let’s picture them in two separate buckets. Bucket number one contains choices that are our personal preferences. My “personal preference” bucket would contain two of my favorite foods, strawberries and broccoli. People can choose to eat or not eat strawberries or broccoli, but that choice does not harm other people. Bucket number two contains choices that cause serious harm like murder, stealing, and rape. Would you agree that people shouldn’t have the choice to do any of those three things? *
Dixon: Yes.
Tammy: Why not?
Dixon: Because they’re wrong.
Tammy: I agree. Each of these harms a human being, right?
Dixon: Yes.
Tammy: Do you see the difference? Someone who chooses to eat or not eat broccoli does not harm another person, but someone who chooses to rape does harm another person, right?
Dixon: Yes.
Tammy: And since abortion takes the life of a human being, would you agree that it belongs in the same bucket as rape and stealing?
Dixon: Yes. Wow! This has been enlightening. You’ve given me a lot to think about. What if I hear of someone who is thinking about having an abortion? What should I do?
Tammy: Good question! Let me show you an app on my phone that you can download. [I showed him a video of an eight-week embryo using the “See Baby Pregnancy Guide” app for smartphones and tablets from the Endowment for Human Development (EHD). Click here to download the app for free.]
Dixon: Wow, that’s cool.
Dixon had to get to class, but before he left, I was also able to show him how to use the JFA Exhibit Brochure to help someone considering abortion. He thanked me for all of the new information and appeared to have a genuine change of heart about abortion.
* I said this a bit differently on campus, and Dixon understood my meaning. I've slightly changed the wording in this dialogue to more clearly illustrate my meaning in print. Please take this portion of the dialogue to be capturing the gist of the conversation rather than the precise wording I used on campus.
A Popsicle Poll (and a Conversation)
Impact Report, January 2017
Introductory Note: I'm eager to share this Impact Report with you. Written by 20-year JFA veteran Tammy Cook, it allows you to see a model conversation unfold, nurtured through Tammy’s skillful choice of questions and information. You get to watch a student rethink his position on abortion, and you get to see the JFA poll table, a stalwart conversation tool we’ve used since 2001, in a new twist that JFA trainers Jon Wagner and Paul Kulas came up with during a late-night run to Walmart. The “popsicle poll” was one of the tools we used along with our large Art of Life Exhibit to start conversations about abortion at Oklahoma State University in November 2016. Go to the photos page for the event to see these tools in action, as well as two other new twists on classic JFA conversation tools. We turned one free speech board into a straw poll on the presidential election (we couldn’t help ourselves—it was election day), and we used another to ask people which particular abortions they thought should be legal, in terms of timing and circumstances. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director
Having conducted many campus outreach events in unpredictable weather, the JFA team has learned to make quick adjustments on the fly. Our latest challenge? How to keep poll table notebooks dry in the rain. The notebooks allow students to sign Yes or No in response to our poll question, Should Abortion Remain Legal? The poll is one of our best tools for starting conversations, so when it was raining at Oklahoma State University (OSU) in November, our team got creative. Popsicle sticks and Styrofoam to the rescue! Students could now vote by signing a Popsicle stick and putting it in either the Yes side or the No side.
During the lunch hour, “Hudson” stopped by to vote. He placed a popsicle stick on the Yes side. I thanked him for voting, introduced myself, and started a conversation:
Tammy: I’m curious—do you think abortion should be legal through all nine months of pregnancy?
Hudson: Well, I don’t know, but I don’t think the government should be in people’s lives.
Tammy: I would like to better understand your view. Can you give me an example?
Hudson: I don’t think the government should make a law that says a woman can’t have an abortion.
Tammy: Ah. So basically you’re saying that you don’t want the government to tell you what you can or can’t do?
Hudson: Yes.
Tammy Cook interacts with a student near JFA’s experimental “popsicle poll” at OSU in November. Click here to see more pictures from the OSU November 2016 event, which included our large Art of Life Exhibit along with two new twists on our classic free speech board conversation tool.
Tammy: I can see that. I agree that there are times when the government shouldn’t interfere with our choices. For example, I think people should be able to choose if they want to go to college. I do think, though, that the government should make laws that protect our citizens. Would you agree with the laws that stop people from driving 100 miles per hour on the freeway while intoxicated?
Hudson: Yes.
Tammy: Why?
Hudson: Because that’s not safe, and it would risk harming or killing other people.
Tammy: I agree. So, do you agree with the current laws that prohibit rape, murder, and theft?
Hudson: Yes, I agree with those laws. But when it comes to taking away choice, I don’t agree with the government taking away a woman’s choice.
Tammy: Got it. Let’s take a moment to talk about human beings and look at biological development. When do you think we become human?
Hudson: I’m not sure... maybe in the third trimester?
Tammy: Okay. So, do you agree with me that this is a human being? [I pointed to the third-trimester fetus on page three of our brochure, pictured right.]
Hudson: Yes.
JFA Exhibit Brochure, page 3 (Click here to access the brochure on your smartphone or get a paper copy.)
Tammy: Okay. Let’s look at earlier stages of human development. [I pointed to the first seven circles on page three.] Would you agree that if the unborn is growing, it must be alive? And if it has human parents, it can only be human? And living humans like you and me—we’re valuable, aren’t we?
Hudson: Hmmm... [seriously contemplating what I’ve shown to him]
Tammy: And did you know that from the point of fertilization, all that is added to the embryo is adequate nutrition and a proper environment? Nothing essential is injected along the way to make an embryo into an organism. So, if you and I are whole organisms now, the embryo must also be a whole organism at fertilization. Would you agree?
Hudson: Maybe so, but I still think abortion should be a woman’s choice because abortion is legal.
Tammy: Okay, so it sounds like legality is important to you. Let’s look at slavery, which used to be legal. Should our country have kept slavery legal?
Hudson: No.
Tammy: I agree. We should restrict people from choosing to own a slave because that is a violation of human rights. For the same reason, don’t we also have an obligation to restrict people from choosing abortion?
Hudson: [pausing to think]
Tammy: And I think it could aid our discussion if we include images of abortion. Are you willing to view them?
Hudson: Sure.
Tammy: This is what abortion looks like. [I showed him an abortion image on page five of the JFA Exhibit Brochure.]
“I feel like I want to break the popsicle stick in half and put half in the Yes side and half in the No side..”
Hudson: Wow, you’ve given me a lot to think about. I see it a little differently now. The slavery comparison was really helpful. I’ve never thought about it that way before. I need to go think about this. I feel like I want to break the popsicle stick in half and put half in the Yes side and half in the No side. Can I have one of those brochures?
Tammy: Yes, absolutely. Thanks for taking time to talk.
Our team had two wonderful days of outreach at OSU, even despite the rain. And the popsicle poll brought a great response. There were 190 people who voted Yes (abortion should remain legal) and 120 who voted No (abortion should not remain legal). I spoke to about 25 pro-choice students over two days, and I saw more than half of those students rethinking their views like Hudson did. Some even had a complete change of heart and agreed that abortion should not be legal.
Christina
There is one thing we can always be certain of on every campus: Encountering students who are either considering abortion or who have had an abortion. Our hope is to connect them as quickly as possible with valuable life-saving resources.
Having a local pregnancy resource center (PRC) table near our exhibit is invaluable. Because we’ve been blessed to have the presence of PRC tables manned by directors and volunteers, many lives have been saved and impacted. Here is one of those stories.
Six years ago I had an encounter with a student on campus that I have never forgotten. Her name was Christina.
As she viewed the exhibit I asked, “What do you think about this exhibit?”
She looked at me and replied angrily,
“I’ve had three of these, what do you think I think about it?”
My heart broke as I expressed sorrow for her pain. After sensing my spirit of compassion instead of condemnation, Christina shared her story with me.
With her first two pregnancies, each boyfriend split after hearing the news. She got involved with a third guy who promised he would stick by her no matter what. But she once again discovered she was pregnant and this guy turned out to be the same as the others.
“Thank you ... you’ve given me my life back.”
With each pregnancy her mom informed her she would not continue her financial support for her education if Christina didn’t have an abortion. Her mother also reminded her each time that she wouldn’t be able to continue playing soccer competitively and she would lose her scholarship if she didn’t get an abortion. Scared and unsure, she chose to follow her mother’s advice each time.
After she finished her story, I asked her if she would be interested in talking with someone who knew her pain firsthand. She nodded yes.
I walked with her to the PRC table nearby. Christina picked up a brochure that listed over 10 symptoms of post-abortion syndrome. I’ve never forgotten her response:
“I thought I was the only one feeling this way.”
She spoke to Terri, the PRC director, who had also had three abortions. Terri shared hope with Christina for the pain and anguish she had been feeling. Christina took the information on the abortion recovery class that was starting the following week. She then hugged me and thanked me before she left.
Two days later, Christina came back. As she walked toward me I noticed something was different. She was smiling and immediately gave me a hug. I’ve never forgotten her words:
“Thank you so much, Tammy. I feel like you’ve given me my life back. I’m going to start going back to church and also start going through the bible study program at the pregnancy center. I am a Christian and I think it would be good for me to get back to God.”