Attitude Can Make or Break the Conversation

Recently, veteran JFA trainer Rebecca Hotovy found an unsent email in her drafts folder. It contained a nearly complete newsletter detailing a conversation from years back. I was so taken with it, I wanted to share it with you. (Rebecca still coaches other JFA speakers part-time during brief breaks from her full-time job as mom to two precious boys.)

We know this story definitely happened at the University of Oklahoma, and we think it happened around 2015. Whatever the date, the story beautifully illustrates the power of JFA’s dialogue approach, the power of a few carefully crafted questions asked with an open heart, and the way in which our attitude has the power to make or break a conversation. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

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Impact Report, June 2022

Rebecca Hotovy, JFA Trainer Certification Coach and Trainer Emeritus

 Several years ago at the University of Oklahoma (OU), as I stood next to the large exhibit, a young man approached me. I’ll call him Chris. Confident that abortion was a woman’s right, Chris started to explain why he felt abortion should remain legal. Several feet from me stood another man, likely twenty to thirty years older than Chris. Although this older man was not a volunteer with Justice For All, he held a pro-life view. He was close enough to hear my conversation with Chris, and as the conversation continued, he listened in.

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Rebecca (center) interacts with an OU student in 2015 near a small version of the JFA Exhibit.

In the first few minutes of that discussion, I took time to figure out the reasoning behind Chris’s belief that abortion should remain legal. Without first understanding why Chris held his view or how he came to the conclusion that abortion should remain legal, I knew I wouldn’t be able help him see errors in his reasoning. I was also aware that blatantly pointing out any errors may upset him enough that he would end the conversation. If he didn’t end the conversation but he stayed and continued talking, it would likely make him put up barriers of self-defense that would prevent him from wanting to listen to the ideas being presented, even if he was physically present and talking. Sadly, I’ve seen this happen many times – two people begin to dialogue about a controversial subject, quickly start defending their own positions, and turn a conversation into two monologues because they feel offended. If they feel offended for whatever reason, they may hear words coming from the other person’s mouth, but they don’t listen to the meaning of the message of those words.

In my conversation with Chris, over time it became clear that he did not believe the unborn was biologically human. When I felt I had built a good rapport with him, I allowed our conversation to take a turn. I started asking questions not just to discover his reasoning in defense of legal abortion but also to challenge that reasoning. At this point in the conversation I knew he would welcome the challenge because he could see that I didn’t desire to push my agenda down his throat. The challenge questions I asked were exactly the ones we train participants to ask when they attend the Abortion: From Debate to Dialogue seminar. I said something like:

Rebecca: Chris, do you mean that you don’t believe the unborn is biologically a human being or that the unborn isn’t a human being that deserves the same rights as you and I do?

Chris: Oh, it’s not biologically a human being at all. It’s just a clump of cells in those early stages.

Rebecca: If I could offer evidence for why the unborn is a human being, would you mind?

Chris: Sure. Go ahead.

Rebecca: If the unborn is growing, isn’t it alive?

Chris: [pausing and then slowly nodding his head] Yeah, sure I can agree with that.

Rebecca: If the unborn has human parents, isn’t it human?

Chris: [pausing and pondering the question with a slight grin on his face] Yes.

It was his answer to my third question, though, that threw me for a loop.

Rebecca: And living human beings, like you and me, are valuable, aren’t they?

Chris: Oh my gosh. Yes.

There was another moment of silence as he continued to ponder the questions I had just asked that laid out a defense for the humanity of the unborn. We stood in silence for a while longer. Then he said something like:

Chris: Wow, okay, so I need to think through this more.

This was so unexpected to me because most students I talk to do not agree with each of these questions. They have all sorts of creative ideas to share, such as “Well, fire grows, and it’s not alive” or “Yeah, well a clump of cells might be alive and have human DNA, but that doesn’t mean it is a human being...Are tumors human beings?” or “Sperm are alive and have human DNA. Are all sperm valuable, too?”

Chris didn’t have any retorts like these. He simply agreed that the unborn was a human being.

Just as I thought the conversation was going really well, it took a turn for the worse. The pro-life man who had been listening in stepped close enough to us to join the conversation, turned to Chris, and snootily remarked, “She got ya! Didn’t she‽”

My heart dropped to my stomach. I had taken such care not to make Chris feel like I was attacking his position and to make him feel comfortable sharing his thoughts with me, and in less than three seconds someone who claimed to be pro-life obliterated all my efforts. Chris was as shocked as I was. His face showed it. He also became really nervous and started stumbling over his words.

One would think that I would easily become frustrated with people who hold beliefs against the dignity and sanctity of human life, but in this instance I became frustrated instead with this person who was like-minded to me in certain ways but didn’t realize the importance of treating the human standing in front of us with respect. Fortunately, I was able to jump back into the conversation, regain a good rapport with Chris, direct the conversation away from the “got ya” remark, and help him feel less nervous.

In hindsight, I now take another step back and realize that the art of learning to dialogue is a journey for everyone – the pro-life advocate and the pro-choice advocate alike. Prior to my training and work with Justice For All, if I had been that pro-life person standing there listening in on the conversation, I may have made a similar remark. Early on I didn’t understand that the way I shared the truth about the unborn could actually affect whether that truth helped pro-choice advocates change their minds. Thank you, Justice For All, for your gift of teaching me the beauty of dialoguing in love!

Note: Yes, that’s an intentional interrobang in the fourth from the last paragraph. Learn more about this controversial punctuation mark through this engaging podcast episode from 99 Percent Invisible.

Video: "Why Equal Rights?" (Outreach Clip)

Watch Rebecca Hotovy talk with a student at Colorado State University about the foundation for our equal rights.

What do you think of Rebecca’s reasoning?

Watch Rebecca Hotovy (Haschke) talk with a student at Colorado State University about the foundation for our equal rights. --- Read Outreach Stories: www.jfaweb.org/stories Ask About an Internship: www.jfaweb.org/internships Explore JFA's Guide for Pro-Life Students: www.jfaweb.org/students/ccc Video by: Genesis Media (www.genesismediasolutions.com)

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Click here for more dialogue examples involving the Equal Rights Argument.

You Can't Learn This In a Classroom

Introductory Note:  JFA training is not just theoretical.  JFA volunteers are able to immediately put what they learn into practice.  Once equipped through a JFA seminar, volunteers start their practical training by watching their JFA mentors in conversation, observing how they use JFA dialogue skills with pro-choice advocates.  After that they create their own conversations alongside a JFA mentor who can offer feedback and support.  Volunteers are enthusiastic about this unique, active learning experience, one that can’t be replicated in a classroom.  In this Impact Report, featuring conversation stories from Rebecca Hotovy and Paul Kulas, you'll see how JFA mentors supported outreach volunteers at our recent University of Kansas (KU) outreach, praying for them, modeling good dialogue, and participating with them in their first conversations.  - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

I was mentoring a young woman named Maya, the president of the Jayhawks for Life club that had invited JFA to the University of Kansas (KU).  I had been praying for her throughout the trip because I wanted her to be able to be encouraged by the conversations that she was going to witness while we were mentoring her.  She’s someone who really desires to go out and create conversation. 

Maya (right) talks to a fellow student at JFA’s Art of Life Exhibit outreach at the University of Kansas, an outreach she helped to organize.  See the JFA Photo Archive for more photos from the KU outreach event.

One of the first conversations she witnessed was actually one that she started.  She saw a young man, “Will,” standing next to the Art of Life Exhibit, and when she realized that he was just standing there looking and that no one else on our staff was able to engage him, she walked up to him to ask him what he thought.  When she started to ask him questions, Will revealed that he actually didn’t know yet what his thoughts were about abortion.

She didn’t know where to go from there, so she asked if she could introduce him to someone who could guide him through the pro-life position.  Once she found out that Will was open to a dialogue with someone, she ran and grabbed me, brought me over, and introduced me to him.

Rebecca (left), Maya (hidden, with pink cap), and another volunteer interact with students (not Will) at JFA’s Art of Life Exhibit at KU.

We started a conversation, and Will seemed pretty open to hearing why I believed what I did.  I asked him if I could see if there were areas where we could agree.  First we jumped into the topic of biology.  I told Will that I believed that the unborn is a human being from conception forward, and he said, “You know, I don’t believe that it’s a human being from conception on a biological level.”  I then found out that he was a biology major, so I first asked him, “Since you’re a biology major, would you mind if I would just share with you snippets from my understanding of biology, and then you can break those down, and tell me if you agree or disagree?”  He said, “Okay!”

So I took about two minutes to explain the sperm and the egg coming together.  We also walked through the “construction vs. development” concept.  (See our “Extending Your Learning - Biology” page to learn more about the way in which the unborn is not constructed like a car, but instead develops from within, more like a polaroid photo.)  He said, “You know, there’s nothing there I can disagree with at this point.”

Sean (right) and Benjamin (center) talk to their JFA mentor, Paul Kulas (left), about Benjamin’s first conversation at the KU outreach in March.

Then we walked through the idea that, from fertilization, the unborn is not part of another organism, but is a whole organism with its own functional parts.  I asked Will what his thoughts were on that, and he said, “You know, there’s nothing I can disagree with there either.”  So we came to the end of walking through how we know the unborn is biologically human, and he didn’t have anything to refute.

“Okay, so we agree that the unborn is biologically human,” I said.  “What does that mean with regard to abortion?”  After that, I walked through the Equal Rights Argument, and he seemed to be very responsive to that line of reasoning.  (Learn to defend the equal right to life of the unborn through real-life dialogue examples in our Equal Rights Argument Newsletter Collection.)

We had probably talked for about thirty minutes when Will looked at me and at Maya.  “That is one of the most logical arguments I have heard for the pro-life position,” he said.  “I am really going to have to continue processing this and thinking about this.”

When he walked away, Maya turned to me and said, “That was amazing!”

I was really excited because this seemed to be an answer to my prayers for Maya.  That was one of the first outreach conversations she had witnessed, and it walked through the seminar material in a way that would make it make sense for her.  It wasn’t a conversation about one of the more complicated topics that are sometimes raised at our events, such as “whether or not we know we exist” or “whether or not we can know anything at all.”  It was actually one of the more basic conversations, in which the person with whom we spoke was able to follow pretty simple ideas and logic.

- Rebecca Hotovy, Training Specialist

Three students from a Catholic high school joined the JFA team at KU as mission trip participants from out of state.  These young men were participants at the JFA seminar held just off campus and then came out to volunteer for the first full day of outreach at KU.  After they helped with exhibit setup, our team started to create conversations with KU students.  About an hour or two into the outreach, I noticed that these young men from my group were doing a good job of just observing JFA staff members’ conversations, which is what we had instructed them to do for the first portion of the day.

I was taking pictures, standing off to the side, when a KU student came up to two of the young men, Benjamin and Sean.  They were standing next to the new art table by the Art of Life Exhibit at the time, listening to one of Becca Hotovy’s conversations.  (See pictures of the art table created by JFA trainer Grace Fontenot, and other photos from the recent outreach at KU, in the JFA Photo Archive.)  Right after the KU student came up to talk to them, Benjamin started interacting with him.  The college student seemed to have an agenda, and he had a sort of steamrolling personality in the conversation.  I was within earshot, but not close enough to be in the conversation, so I slowly inched my way closer to listen and be available if I was needed.

The KU student shared that he had grown up in a Christian community in a small, remote town.  A 13-year-old girl in the town had been forced into an intimate, incestuous relationship by an older family member.  He said the girl had ended up getting pregnant as a result, and that the family had shamed this young woman for what had happened even though she was the victim.  The KU student ended up basically saying to the high schoolers, “What would you tell this woman who gets pregnant and wants an abortion?”

It was one of the hardest topics that ever gets brought up, and it was the first conversation in which these students had actively participated.  I didn’t know how Benjamin would handle it, but he did a really good job of showing compassion for the rape victim, balancing the relational and intellectual challenges inherent in responding to the question of rape.  (See “What about Rape?” in JFA's Interactive Guide to learn to meet both challenges and respond in a Christ-like way.)  I thought that with just one seminar under his belt, he actually did very well at staying on the relational side, focusing on the horror of rape and showing genuine sympathy.  He didn’t jump into intellectual argument mode, even though he was a very intellectually adept student.  I did end up joining in the conversation at one point to help out somewhat, but he had done a really good job of focusing on the right approach at the right time. 

- Paul Kulas, Director of Operations

A Lesson in Love

Rebecca's Reflections, June 2017 (Part I) and July 2017 (Part II)

By Rebecca Haschke, JFA Training Specialist

PART I

Pictured above are comments written this past April on one of the Free Speech Boards at Colorado State University.  Click here to see more pictures from the CSU April 2017 event, which featured our large Stop and Think Exhibit.

A short distance away from me, three students stood, laughing loudly and verbally mocking our display.  They had just walked past our large Stop and Think Exhibit, which we had put up to create dialogue at Colorado State University in April.  Curious, they had approached our Free Speech Board (see example pictured nearby) and, after reading a few comments, began to vocally agree with others who had written in opposition to JFA.

Even after years of experience engaging students about abortion, I didn’t even have an ounce of desire to strike up a conversation with this group.  Before the students walked away, though, from somewhere deep inside I was prompted to take courage and walk over to them.  So, I went (albeit begrudgingly) and inquired:

Becca:  Hey guys, do you mind if I ask, “What are your thoughts?”

A Free Speech Board comment from the Colorado State University Stop and Think outreach.  View more photos from the CSU April 2017 event by clicking here.

Two of the students walked away as if I didn’t exist.  The third student, “Sam,” quickly turned toward me, laughed again, and sarcastically questioned me:

Sam:  You want to know what I think?  Yea-a-a-h, I’ll share my thoughts.

At that moment thoughts started floating through my mind. “I really don’t want to be in this conversation.  I wish I hadn’t engaged him.  Why am I doing this?”  I attempted to learn more about his view by asking him questions, but I was battling those negative thoughts the whole time.  As I tried to find common ground with him (even in the smallest of ways), he shared his belief that abortion should be legal for all nine months and for any reason.  When I asked whether or not he agreed with sex-selection abortion, his response indicated that, yes, indeed he did. 

After all my attempts to find common ground, I ended up empty-handed.  His mocking demeanor continued and eventually a more complete picture of his view emerged.  It was something like this: 

A Free Speech Board comment from the Colorado State University Stop and Think outreach.  View more photos from the CSU April 2017 event by clicking here.

Sam (paraphrased):  Even if a woman wants to kill a child after it is born it really doesn’t matter.  Although US law doesn’t currently reflect this, in reality nothing has value.  Even born humans don’t matter.  The only value that exists is the value that we as individuals assign to a particular object or being.  So if a woman doesn’t think a two-year-old is valuable, for her it doesn’t really matter if she kills her child.

Because of Sam’s demeanor, I felt that attempting to challenge his beliefs would have been done in vain.  I mentally prepared to exit the conversation when another thought overwhelmed my mind: “Love him, Rebecca.  Love the person he is.  Find a way to love him.”  I’ll “blame” those thoughts on the Holy Spirit.

Once again from somewhere deep inside I found the courage to try to do what I felt I had no capacity to do – love him.  At this point I didn’t know where to take the conversation about abortion, so I just asked him about him.  I remember asking,

Becca:  Have you always felt this way? 

Students stop to read a Free Speech Board at the Colorado State University Stop and Think outreach.  View more photos from the CSU April 2017 event by clicking here.

Sam:  No.  And I probably won’t always hold these views.  I grew up Catholic.  Things in life happen, and these events help form our views.  We are all searching, and our views change as we journey through life. 

Becca:  So, when did this change take place for you?

As he told his story he shared about the intellectual encounters he had had with others who are atheists, how much those encounters had influenced him, and how old he was when he started questioning God’s existence.  My next response may have been the most crucial part of the conversation.  Sam’s experience wasn’t so foreign to me, and I told him so.

Becca:  Sam, you know what?  I can relate to that.  Of course, every person’s story is different, but sometimes they have similar elements to them.  When I was 21, I studied in Mexico and met a guy from Germany named Marc.  We had many discussions about religion and the existence of God.  Marc was a very intelligent young man, and he had better answers to why he believed God didn’t exist than I had for why I believed God did exist.  When I returned home from Mexico, I had many doubts in my mind about God’s existence and what I believed.  At that point, I started a journey of searching for answers to some of those questions, too.  I can understand at some level why you have doubts.

As Sam discovered that we had genuine common ground, his demeanor changed.  He seemed to be less defensive, mocking, and condescending.  He also seemed to be appreciating the conversation as we each shared more about our personal experiences.  Little did I know that Sam was about to share something that would remind me why choosing to love him was so important in the first place. 

(To be continued in Part II below...)

Note: This story was JFA's Featured Resource for May 2017.

PART II

Tired of standing, we found a nearby place to sit down. This is where Sam shared with me that sometime in the past year he and his girlfriend had had an abortion. My heart sank. It now made sense why he had been so defensive. At that point, I asked:

Becca: Please know you don’t have to answer this if you don’t want to, but how is your girlfriend doing?

Although he attempted to hide it, I saw a deeply pained look take over his face and posture. More of their story poured out from his heart. So then I asked:

Becca: Sam, how are you doing?

He shared his story of pain, sadness, struggles with suicidal thoughts after the abortion, and much more. My heart sank again. The fact that he held the radical ideas and thoughts he had shared earlier in the conversation now made more sense to me. He may have been using these ideas as coping mechanisms as he tried to sort through the pain he was experiencing.

As I allowed him to tell more of his story, I also shared with him the stories of other men (some of whom I’ve met and others about whom I’ve read) who have lost a child to abortion. He was shocked to discover that other post-abortive men have struggled with some of the same things he had been experiencing. Tears never slid down his cheeks, but several times I was sure I saw them forming in the brims of his eyes.

Sam shared that on the day he and his girlfriend had walked into the clinic for the abortion, someone from among the pro-life crowd at the clinic threw something at the two of them. It was apparent to me that that action hurt Sam not physically, but emotionally. My heart sank yet again. The anger toward pro-life advocates that I sensed in him was now more understandable.

After over an hour had passed, he had to leave for class. As he stood up to depart, he asked if it would be alright if he gave me a hug. After the hug he pointed toward the Stop and Think Exhibit and said:

Sam: I talked with another lady at the display yesterday, too. We may not agree on everything about abortion, but the approach to what you guys are doing out here — I completely support this.

Sam then slid his sunglasses down over his eyes and walked away. I was humbled.

While reflecting on this conversation later that day, I noted that in the midst of being mocked, I had rediscovered the key to disarming hate, anger, and condescension. It’s love — not a mushy, sappy, or happy emotional feeling that many people call love, but an action that is self-sacrificial and often hurts. I’ve been taught this repeatedly throughout my life but continually seem to need reminders. My encounter with Sam was a real-life example of what love is and what it does. If I hadn’t listened to the promptings to love him, Sam would have likely continued to exhibit the hardness of heart that I had witnessed from him earlier in the conversation. Choosing to love him, even when it wasn’t enjoyable, opened a door for him to be vulnerable in a way that was unexpected — likely unexpected for both me and for Sam. Because this reminder occurred through a real-life experience — a conversation — I hope it is a lesson in love that I won’t so quickly forget.

The thoughts and feelings I experienced during this conversation made me think I should spend some time reading how St. Paul describes love in his first letter to the Corinthians so that the next time I meet a student like Sam, I may joyfully respond to him instead of begrudgingly engaging him. After reading through 1 Corinthians 13:1-8, I chose to include the excerpts below in this newsletter because each phrase reminded me specifically of my encounter with Sam.

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal … Love is patient, love is kind … it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

1 Corinthians 13 (excerpts)

Until Sam knew I cared about him as a person, it did not matter how eloquently I defended the right to life of the unborn because he would have likely only heard me as a gong or a clashing cymbal. Somehow, I recognized that continuing to speak about abortion would have been in vain. Sadly, my initial thought in response to this was to abandon the conversation, which was not a reaction of patience. I’m grateful for the overwhelming thoughts that prompted me to find a way to love Sam and, in turn, prompted me to practice patience.

Even though I was begrudging the idea of continuing a conversation in which I felt mocked, disliked, and uncomfortable, the prompt to love Sam helped me to treat Sam with kindness. This prompting also gave me the strength to battle the temptations to:

• be quick-tempered and abruptly tell him how false his ideas were,

• seek my own interests by departing from this uncomfortable conversation, or

• return the rudeness that I was encountering with further rudeness.

Love bears all things. I realize now that because I was given strength to bear the mockery and condescension at the beginning of the conversation with Sam, the doors opened for him to be vulnerable enough to share his story. It’s possible that prior to my conversation with him he had never felt free to be open with someone who is pro-life.

Tears fill the brims of my eyes, too, as I think of Sam and read that love believes all things, hopes all things … Love never fails.  There are so many more thoughts and resources I want to share with Sam — but I cannot because I don’t know how to contact him.  I want him to experience healing. I desire for him to help the mother of his child heal. I desire for Sam to hear the arguments against abortion, but I want him to hear them from someone who will be gentle with him. I want to believe and have hope that these things are possible — that even while my attempt to love Sam was imperfect, God’s love for Sam will not fail.

Please join me in praying for Sam and in studying these words of St. Paul’s in order that each of us can joyfully respond, with love, to every Sam we encounter in our lives.

AFTERWORD

Please see JFA's June Resource Bulletin, which includes resources you can use to help someone like Sam who has an abortion in his or her past. In addition, the Resource Bulletin links to a letter a young man wrote to his daughter after he found out she had been aborted. He named her Rilegh. You can use that letter to help someone begin to process a past abortion experience.

#Mindblown

By Rebecca Haschke, Training Specialist (November 2015, with Rebecca’s Introduction Edited Slightly for Clarity in Summer 2020)

Introduction: In election seasons, it is very common for people to talk about what the law should be on abortion. When that is the topic, it is also very common to hear some version of the following sentiment: “I’m pro-life, but I can’t tell other people what to do. Therefore, abortion should be legal.” JFA trainer Rebecca Haschke did a beautiful job of helping a young man reconsider this sentiment in a conversation she described in a recent letter entitled “#Mindblown” (below). In this man’s case, he felt that because he had religious reasons for his point of view on abortion, he was disqualified from making a case that abortion should not be legal. I think you’ll be encouraged to see how this young man came to see things differently in just minutes. In the process, you’ll witness Rebecca’s manner, and you’ll learn a sequence of questions you can ask when you confront this sort of concern in conversations with friends and neighbors. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director (April 2016 Impact Report)

I met “Brian” at the University of Georgia-Athens. He confidently stated he was pro-life. I mentioned this conversation briefly in my March newsletter earlier this year, "Give Thanks In All Circumstances," because of what Brian said next. He shared that he was pro-life and a Christian, but that he felt he could not “force his beliefs on others.”

This response is not an unusual one. I’ve heard it many times. Hearing it as often as I do can be discouraging, which is why I took the time in March to reflect on the need to give thanks in all circumstances, not just the circumstances that seem uplifting and enjoyable.

Rebecca Haschke interacts with a student at the University of Georgia at Athens in September 2015.

The conversation with Brian didn’t end there, though. Look at what happened: 

Brian: I’m pro-life.

Becca (me): Brian, what does that mean for you? Do you think abortion should be illegal?

Brian: No, we can’t force our beliefs on others.  I’m pro-life because I’m a Christian, but legally enforcing my stance on abortion would push my religion on people who don’t believe the same as me.

Becca: Brian, you mentioned that it is because you are a Christian that you are pro-life.  Do your Christian beliefs give you reasons for thinking that abortion is wrong?

Brian: Of course.  Human life is sacred.  God created those human lives, they are valuable, and we should not kill them.

Becca: I agree with those statements.  From what you just said it seems that you may believe the unborn are human beings biologically.  Is that true?

Brian: Yeah, absolutely.

Becca: Human beings like you and me?

Brian: Yes.

Becca: When do you believe that the unborn become biological human beings like you and me?

Brian: [He walked up to the Justice For All Exhibit and pointed at a picture of fertilization.] From the very beginning.  Conception.

Becca: Okay.  Brian, can you explain to me why you think that you would be pushing your religious beliefs on others if you supported laws that would protect unborn human beings from being killed through abortion?

Brian: Well, women have a lot of difficult choices that they have to make in their lives.  Choice is an important thing.  If we make a law against abortion, we are taking away their right to that choice.  That’s like pushing my views on them.  They no longer would have the right to choose.

Becca: That’s true.  The choice to kill their children in utero would no longer be granted to women.  I’m curious.  Do you think that it is ever right for the government to make a law that takes away a “choice”?

Brian: Uh…no?

Becca: Well, do you agree that the laws that make it illegal to walk onto this campus and kill college students are good laws?

Brian: Of course.

Becca: I agree.  However, when enforcing that law, the government is taking away particular choices of other people.  What about laws prohibiting beating children in the privacy of your own home?  Are those good laws?

Brian: Yes, yes.  Those are good laws.

Becca: What if it is just your religion that makes you think that it is wrong to beat children?  Should you have the right to impose and force your religious beliefs on me?

Brian: Yes, because those laws protect others from being harmed.  That’s not just a religious belief.  It is a law protecting human rights.

Becca: So we can agree that laws which restrict “choice” in order to protect human lives are good, despite the fact that your support of those laws might be based on religious beliefs?  It’s possible that our religious beliefs may guide us to the same conclusion as those who don’t share those beliefs—the conclusion that all human lives should be protected.  That wouldn’t be forcing our religion on others, but simply protecting human rights.  Can we agree on that?

Brian: Yes, we can.

Becca: If it is important for us to protect human life and if the unborn are just as human and valuable as you and me, shouldn’t they also be granted that same protection under the law?

Brian: Wow.  Yeah, I guess.  I just have always thought that would be imposing my beliefs on others.

Becca: [I then pointed to pictures in the JFA Exhibit Brochure depicting various genocides throughout history.]  Brian, do you think that people who were not victims of the injustices shown in these pictures had an obligation to stand up for those who were being killed?

Brian: Yes.

Becca: I’m going to make a proposal.  Brian, not only is it right for you to believe that abortion should be illegal because it takes the life of a human being; but actually—as a person who has the knowledge that 1) the unborn is a human being and 2) over a million are killed each year in the country in which you reside—you have an obligation to speak up for those humans who are being killed.

(silent pause)

Brian: #MindBlown [hashtag: Mind Blown].

“It was as if he had finally been given permission to defend the lives of innocent human beings that he understood were valuable, permission to voice his opinion without shame. Relief and amazement radiated from his eyes.”

Brian’s final response took me by surprise.  From the start of our conversation he seemed so confident in his belief that it is wrong to enforce laws telling others what they can and cannot do.  Until that final moment in our conversation, the questions I had asked him did not seem to be creating any change of mind or heart.  When he looked at me and said, “#MindBlown,” his entire demeanor changed.  It was as if he had finally been given permission to defend the lives of innocent human beings that he understood were valuable, permission to voice his opinion without shame.  Relief and amazement radiated from his eyes.

The culture in which we live is permeated with the belief and mantra that we cannot tell others what to do.  Thank you for your support that not only helps us challenge the beliefs of those who do not think the unborn are valuable human beings, but also helps us encourage the students who recognize the unborn are valuable, but do not feel they have the right to share that belief with others.

Note: Members of JFA’s training team interacted with the topic of Rebecca’s letter recently. You can read some of their reflections and post your own at the JFA blog.

From One to a Crowd

Conversations: September 2015

Phase 1

Navigating a one-on-one conversation about a controversial subject can be difficult.  Now add nine more people with varying opinions.  Is it possible for the conversation to remain productive, or at least civil?  At our University of Arizona outreach in February 2015, I watched a one-on-one conversation transform into a conversation with a crowd that lasted three hours.

“Michael” (Phase 1) approached me in order to share his view that he didn’t believe life began at conception.  Overhearing the conversation, two other students wandered over to listen in (Phase 2).  Then two more students arrived and began peppering me with their opinions and thoughts, including multiple questions related to their disagreements regarding what they had heard me discuss with Michael.

At this point there was no way to answer every student’s questions at the same time (not to mention that every response I shared prompted more questions).   In order to respect Michael, and not forget him in the midst of this developing crowd, I asked a favor of all five students.  I said something like,

Phase 2

“You are all bringing up important topics and questions to cover.  I want to answer all of them, but I want to respect each of you by doing it in an orderly fashion so that we don’t miss anything.  Here are the concerns I have heard:

• What about poverty?  What about women who don’t have the means to care for a child?

• What about women who already have too many children?

• What about a woman who has been violated (rape)?

• Women’s liberty:  Doesn’t the pro-life view violate our liberties?

• The unborn aren’t human so shouldn’t abortion only be illegal after we become human?

• Men shouldn’t have an opinion in this matter.  It’s a woman’s body. So it’s her choice.

“I need your help though.  Please help me remember each of these questions if I forget one.  If you have another question, let me know so that we can add it to the list.  I am going to start by answering one of Michael’s questions first, the one about women who don’t seem to have the financial means to care for a child.”

Phase 3

In the next three hours I witnessed something beautiful unfold.  Because each of the students knew that I thought addressing each question was important, they patiently waited their turn. As more and more students wandered over to listen in (with most of them eventually joining in) each one witnessed a particular type of conversation taking place:  It was a conversation in which disagreement was readily present but anger was absent.  People were asking questions to seek clarification.  People were actively listening to understand each other.  People where not interrupting each other.

This respectful conversation set a precedent, and this precedent caused a second beautiful response from the students.  Newcomers recognized the calm demeanor of those who disagreed with me and quickly followed suit.  So much so, that they would even raise their hands (see Phase 3 above) and wait for me to call on them before sharing thoughts or asking questions.

At one point in the conversation I was able to ask the students present how they felt after the past hour of conversation.  One of the students had changed his mind about when we are biologically human.  Another student felt that abortion should still be legal but not in as many cases as she had originally thought.  A third student commented that, although she was still pro-choice, she had never heard these pro-life arguments and they made sense.  Later that day a fourth student returned to tell me that although he is pro-life he had never witnessed a conversation about abortion like that one.  He was amazed by the response of the students.

One pro-choice student who joined the group conversation had spent two hours in conversation with me the day prior.  During the group discussion he responded to several of the pro-choice arguments using the same pro-life responses I had shared with him the day before.  Although he stated he was still pro-choice, it was clear that he now also saw the validity in some of the arguments I had proposed to him.

Thank you for helping JFA turn the debate about abortion into a productive dialogue by respecting the dignity of the unborn while also respecting the dignity of each person in the conversation.